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Intel Motherboards & CPUs Questions or comments on INTEL products?


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 2nd June, 2005, 02:37 AM
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BIOS question

Howdy all, I have an old P4 1.6 on 0.18 micron core (Willamette) with a VIA mobo that doesn't support overclocking. I'm currently (slowly) putting together a new system, but once that is done I would like to try to find a better motherboard that will allow me to find out what this thing has in it. I've heard some people say you can't get more than like 200mhz out of a willy, but I've already done better than that... only I get data errors once it runs for a bit.
So my question is... is there any way to tell, before buying the mobo and reading the manual, whether or not the BIOS has any kind of PCI/AGP bus lock or manual setting option?
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 03:58 AM
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Now wait a minute here. you say you can't OC your board. You say some say Willy's won't OC past 200. Yey you say you have OC'd a Willy past 200?? Where? in your dreams!!? You have never OC'd a Willamette Core past 200 Ever!!! This is a Native 100fsb chip just so you know. I know guys who have Vapo-chilled a Willy to see and never got to 200. your 1600 willy will be running at 3200mhz if you get there. And you won't get there. you come in trying how to find out if a motherboard is OC'able then tell me you have OC'd your chip to over 200. Hey your the expert ,you tell me............. NEXT!

WZ
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 12:23 PM
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I think he may have meant getting an extra 200mhz out of it or perhaps 2ghz
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 01:10 PM
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Hey start with all the info. There is no VIA mobo. There are motherboards with VIA chipsets. Which one do you have> The model and brand please. Layout all the info.
Boards that still support a 400mhz bus are fast leaving the market place as they are becoming obsolete. My Epox 4PDA2+ver.2 will support that chip as will the Asus P4p800. There are still a few 865 chipset boards out there that will support a willy. But why? Unless it is a stop gap measure til you can upgrade. That Processor will never be very fast. That's not to say it won't hum right along. It just won't be fast.
The Abit AI7 I Believe will support a 400mhz bus processor. you can then get some good memory like G.Skill's 4400LE. A good power supply and finally a newer Northwood C processor and have some speed. Oh Most boards that offer good Overclocking come with the "Phoenix Bios" Stick with intel chipsets but, do NOT buy an Intel Motherboard!!!


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Old 2nd June, 2005, 06:46 PM
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Yes, Graham was right, I was talking about the processor speed, not the fsb. I should have said you can't get more than 200 extra mhz out of a willy - my apologies. And I didn't say I couldn't overclock my motherboard - I said it doesn't support it. You can adjust the fsb, but you can't run the ram async, and there is no pci/agp lock. Running at 1.856, my system was stable only I couldn't complete a virus scan. No reboot, no BSOD, just an error message and an incomplete scan. Not surprising since my pci bus was running at 39mhz. So I backed it off to 1.744 and was running games, downloads, installs, backing up data, etc with no problem.
As far as the mainboard - via still produces motherboards, though I think they're all embedded platforms and mostly micro-atx or mini-atx form factor. As far as this board in particular, I don't know who VIA licensed out the manufacturing to, but it comes with a via manual (not msi or asus or anything else) and I downloaded a photo of this exact board off the old viavpsd website (now replaced by viaembedded.com). Which is all pretty much besides the point, when the time comes I'll just drop an older celly into it and use it for surfing or something.
Really, I'm just wondering about BIOSes in general. If a board comes equipped with an Award bios, should I just assume it doesn't have the more advanced options suited to overclocking? My new board has an AMI bios and has all the features this one is lacking (well maybe not ALL of them but a lot). And thanks for the tpis weldzilla, but I already have a processor all lined up, 3.0E, cheaper than a comparable northwood and a case with all kinds of cooling possibilities. Maybe if I see a board for my old willy I'll just mosey over here and ask the experts if their familiar with it. thanks guys
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 06:53 PM
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The features depend on several things. Firstly, what the chipset supports. If the chipset doesn't support it, it doesn't matter what the BIOS does it isn't going to work! Secondly, what the manufacturer decides you should get. The chipset might well support a feature, but the manufacturer has decided that you won't get those features.

Both Award and AMI provide a core set of routines for the BIOS. The manufacturer then uses those modules, plus a few extra from the chipset manufacturer to put together their BIOS. Hence, it's really dependant on the manufacturer of the board, rather than the core routines used in the BIOS.
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 06:54 PM
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It's not to do with the bios maker which features it will have, I think gigabyte use award and they have plenty of options.
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 07:10 PM
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I see. might not be worth it then to spend the cash on an old (but faster) p4 for this board then. At some point, like I said, i'll put an old 400mhz fsb celeron in it, maybe try to use this processor for a little mp3 server or media pc or something. My new pc isn't even done and I'm looking for more excuses to buy hardware!
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Old 2nd June, 2005, 11:54 PM
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I think with a system of that age the best strategy is usually to keep it in tact as a second system, perhaps take out any decent items, but pretty much just get a whole new system.

The trouble with upgrading pc's is that it forces you into compromise in trying to keep compatability. I doubt anything in that system is up to date, the memory is likely rdram/sdram or at best PC2100 DDR, none of which are any use for a modern system, the board and cpu are two socket types behind the current gen, so upgrading either forces you into old tech, which is usually not that much cheaper than low end current gear.
The video card is probably AGP4x and an old model unless it's been upgraded, the hard Drive is also likely half the speed of current drives, and a fraction the size.
The psu is probably underpowered, especially if you consider a prescott and decent vid card so that leaves the case, floppy and optical drive, the cheapest components.
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Old 3rd June, 2005, 01:36 AM
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You're certainly not far off there. The ram is just crappy ddr2100, I don't even know what kind one of the sticks is. I did get around to putting a newer hard drive in though, just an 80 gig maxtor, but that 8mb cache seemed to make quite a difference with load times. It'll be SATA on the new system (I'll probably have a question or 2 for you guys around the time I'm installing that ). Also upgraded to a lite-on dvd-rw that I'm pretty happy with, and I snagged an FX5200, just for dx9 compatibility. Figured you can't go wrong for 100$ (this was last year). But I'll go all new with the new system, it won't all be absolute cutting edge stuff but it'll be turning backflips over this one, and I'll be able to do a proper job of overclocking it.

What do you think - would a northwood core celeron at 2.6 like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819112178 do any better than my p4? Most recent bios upgrade gives me celeron support, but unfortunately I don't think that includes Celeron Ds, I hear they're much better than the old ones. I would like to find a better home for my pentium, but I guess I better start looking soon..

- edit - guess it's pretty hard to compare cpu's when you don't know how fast they are! my current one is a willamette core p4, 1.6 ghz, 256k cache. and while I'm at it the hard drive is 7200 rpm
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Old 3rd June, 2005, 01:50 AM
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are there any rules about posts that are too long? hope not
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Old 3rd June, 2005, 09:13 AM
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You've got another few hundred lines to go before you get anywhere close to too long! Nah, there aren't any hard and fast rules about how long a post can be. Generally there's only a problem if people are being stupid.
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Old 3rd June, 2005, 01:10 PM
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If you are going for an all new system I'd forget intel, their celeron range are poor performers, the lower end celeron d chips arent aweful, especially once overclocked, but they aren't a patch on the Sempron range.

I'd go for a socket 754 sempron 2800+, a decent nforce 3 250 board like the DFI LanParty UT nF3 250Gb, 1GB of generic DDR400, a Geforce 6600 128mb AGP card, a 200gb Maxtor 10 and an Antec SLK3000B case with a 350W PSU, they are the best choices for price/performance and overclock great, you would get 2.4-2.6ghz from the sempron, putting it close to a 3400+ processor in performance, and the Geforce 6600 will overclock from 300mhz to at least 500mhz, though the memory bandwidth is restriceted, for the price there is nothing better and it will still play all current games on high settings

What socket is your curent motherboard? Aren't Williamette cores socket 423? Northwood and prescott cores are socket 478, though there is a powerleap adapter to convert, it's more expense for less performance.
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Old 3rd June, 2005, 08:53 PM
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I thought about going AMD, but decided that for my first system from scratch, I'd stick with what I was already somewhat familiar with. My williamette's a socket 478, so I bought an MSI motherboard with the same. Gotta say though, I kicked myself a few weeks later when I saw the newer p4's with 2mb cache (they're only LGA775, unfortunately). And I also maybe should have put a little more time into my motherboard selection - the new one (as yet untested) is the intel 848p chipset, no raid, no dual channel. Again, a decision motivated by budget.
You must be reading my mind as far as case and memory though - I already have 1gb of generic ram. It's like "mystery ram", they was practically no info provided about it. They were calling it samsung, but I think it's just a generic module using samsung memory. Probably not very good stuff, but I figure if I run it at 333, hopefully I can still hit 3.6gig + with a p4 3.0E. The case is an Antec SLK2650, 350w power supply. I wanted a little more power, but apparently it's a quality psu. Antec has got a pretty good rep, so I figured I'd go with it.
Video card - I was thinking I would try to get a vid card that's near top of the line, but not of the current generation of cards. I was thinking about a 9800 pro (make sure it's 256 bit, overclock it and maybe flash it to an xt if I can) mainly because I read an article that said mostly of what NVidia had accomplished with their new generation of cards (the 6000 series) was to catch up with the previous generation of ATI cards (9000 series). But apparently new cards are right around the corner? If i do that, I'll be like 3 generations behind the current cards - ouch! I like nVidia, but I guess ATI really hit the nail on the head with their first gen of dx9 cards. How long until we all have to get a dx10 card? I should keep that in mind to.
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Old 3rd June, 2005, 10:33 PM
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It is true that the FX line did fall short, but the current 6000 range isn't just a match for the 9000 range, in many ways it surpasses the X800 line, only clock speed holds them back, unless you are going for an X850 then most of the other cards are beaten by nvidia equivalents.
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Old 4th June, 2005, 01:46 AM
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Hmm. Maybe i'll go full tilt and get a 6800 then, i'm sure I wouldn't regret it. Decisions, decisions... and again, thanks for the feedback. I just want to put together a system that makes the most of the components installed (and that will oc fairly well - i'll spend some money on cooling for sure). If i do that, I'll be happy.
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