New System (E6600) - Need Input

[mz_]

Plan on building a new system over the next month or two. Looking for ideas, suggestions,
and opinions on the following;

Main uses for the system is Video Editing (Mini-DV Cam, Old VHS->DVD) and Video Capturing, MP3
Editing/Converting plus your everyday Internet/Downloading. Not a heavy gamer, but do like to
play the occasional game every now and then (or at least check them out).

Some programs I use are;

Adobe Photoshop CS2 8
Adobe Premire 2.0 Pro
Sony Vegas 7.0
DVD Architect 4.0
Cinema Craft Encoder SP2
TMPGEnc Xpress and DVD Author
DivX and XviD Codecs
H264 Codec (For HD)
LAME MP3 Encoder
PowerDVD/WinDVD
Nero 7 (Recode and Vision)
VSO ConvertXtoDVD

I want to get at least 4 years out of the system, with upgrades. I also want something that
can be overclocked (1st time at this). So a system with some expansion in the future would be
good. Last time I used Intel was the Pentium Pro, been AMD ever since.

This is what I have come up with after reading here and various other boards. As you can see
parts with "OR" are the ones I'm currently debating over. Any Input would be greatly appreciated,
if there is something better with the same price/performace, or something that could save money,
either way, thanks.


CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor

Motherboard : ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard

RAM : G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) 4-4-3-5 Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

VGA : SAPPHIRE 100176L Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card

CASE : Thermaltake Armor Series VA8003BWS Black Full Tower Case w/ 25CM Fan

CPU Cooling : ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler

HDD's #1-2 (OS, Music)

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3250620AS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA
3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

#3-4 (Video Editing, Storage)

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache
SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

DVD+R/W : SAMSUNG Black 18X DVD+R 18X DVD-R 12X DVD-RAM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner, LightScribe Technology - OEM

PSU: OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply 100 - 240 V

SOUNDCARD : Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card

TV Tuner : DVICO FusionHDTV5 RT Gold

MONITOR : DELL 2407WFP 24" Wide-Screen Black Flat Panel Monitor, LCD with Height Adjustable Stand

THERMAL COMPOUND : Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound

[cloasters]

Welcome to AOA Forums, mz_ !

Very nice list of components, I'm somewhat green. As you aren't an intense gamer, one Vidcard oughta do fine. AFAIK, Nvidia's nForce 680i chipset is said to be a better performer than an i P965. As you want to OC, I suggest a very good quality CPU cooler, I'm not saying that the one you have picked out isn't good enough--frankly, I don't know. Just wanted to mention it. Dual-Core CPU's and up to date video cards suck up lots of power, personally I like to have a generous power supply.

[cadaveca]

drop the raptor for all 7200.10's///performance is similar, and 7200.10 are less noise, less heat. 4x250 would do ya real good, 1x RAID1, plus one RAID0 for a 250g and a 500g.

take the ocz700w, or trade down to FSP Epsilon 700w...exact same PSU, down to the nuts and bolts, molex's, and sleeving. At least mine is

pony up on some better ram...4-4-3-10, 3-4-3-8, or 3-3-3-8 800mhz will do ya right.

tkaeh the P5B for maturity, and ease of overclocking...680I boards can be a bastard ATM. I'd actually recommend the P5WDH...lots of us here have had the board, adn the features found within make it worth the price(few bucks more that P5B Deluxe).


get rid of lightscribe...disk cost is too high. might find a better drive for the same price, as my wife's has issues with some DVD+R's.

check out x1950pro's for HDCP and the same price point, but far better performance. Digital PWN makes for a cooler card too...and thereby a quieter system. The 7900GS is by no means a loud card tho. AVIVO pushes more toward ATI's products, and the up-coming RD600 looks to fare quite well, although there is still rumours of heatsink-shopping still happening by DFI...

[mz_]

Originally Posted by cloasters

Welcome to AOA Forums, mz_ !

Very nice list of components, I'm somewhat green. As you aren't an intense gamer, one Vidcard oughta do fine. AFAIK, Nvidia's nForce 680i chipset is said to be a better performer than an i P965. As you want to OC, I suggest a very good quality CPU cooler, I'm not saying that the one you have picked out isn't good enough--frankly, I don't know. Just wanted to mention it. Dual-Core CPU's and up to date video cards suck up lots of power, personally I like to have a generous power supply.

Thanks, glad to be here.

SLI and the 680i were added to my list just for 'future' sake, as I could just add another card, but I can see a point. Upgrading 1 video card or adding another would probably be around the same price, and a SLI setup wouldn't be needed for what I do the most. 680i again, is the newest out and would like something to hold me over for at least 4 years (with some upgrades of course).

The CPU cooler was suggested to me as a 'money saver and around the same performace' in another forum, I had the choices of the ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler or the ZALMAN 9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler.

The diffrence in price is onnly about $40 between the 700 and 850W, which isn't that much when your talking about a good PSU.

[mz_]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

drop the raptor for all 7200.10's///performance is similar, and 7200.10 are less noise, less heat. 4x250 would do ya real good, 1x RAID1, plus one RAID0 for a 250g and a 500g.

take the ocz700w, or trade down to FSP Epsilon 700w...exact same PSU, down to the nuts and bolts, molex's, and sleeving. At least mine is

pony up on some better ram...4-4-3-10, 3-4-3-8, or 3-3-3-8 800mhz will do ya right.

tkaeh the P5B for maturity, and ease of overclocking...680I boards can be a bastard ATM. I'd actually recommend the P5WDH...lots of us here have had the board, adn the features found within make it worth the price(few bucks more that P5B Deluxe).

get rid of lightscribe...disk cost is too high. might find a better drive for the same price, as my wife's has issues with some DVD+R's.

check out x1950pro's for HDCP and the same price point, but far better performance. Digital PWN makes for a cooler card too...and thereby a quieter system. The 7900GS is by no means a loud card tho. AVIVO pushes more toward ATI's products, and the up-coming RD600 looks to fare quite well, although there is still rumours of heatsink-shopping still happening by DFI...

Noise really isn't a BIG issue, although I would like it Semi-Quiet.

Ok, the HDD's. Less heat is good, so the only diffrence is 7200 RPM vs. 10,000 RPM? as both have 16MB Cache. Also your saying, sump the WD Extrenal and replace with a Seagate internal with a RAID setup? The 4th drive will just be my music collection/itunes basicly. I never had a RAID setup, so I'd have to read up on that. Easy, problems?

RAM, what brands would you sugesst? I've read some good things about G.Skill and there are 3 versions I looked at. Since I cant post the links, i'll just give the price/stats and the model # you can type in on newegg probably.

$249.99
Cas Latency: 4
Heat Spreader: Yes
Timing: 4-4-4-12
Voltage: 2.0V - 2.1V
Model #: F2-6400CL4D-2GBPK

$269.99
Cas Latency: 4
Heat Spreader: Yes
Timing: 4-4-3-5
Voltage: 2.0V - 2.1V
Model #: F2-6400CL4D-2GBHK

$304.99
Cas Latency: 4
Heat Spreader: Yes
Timing: 4-4-4-12
Voltage: 2.0V - 2.1V
Model #: F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ

I'll look into the P5WDH, I'll get 4 years out of either that or the P5B over a 680i board?

I currently have a LG with Lightscribe, and haven't used it at all. So good point there. Samsung not a good brand, heard the 18X was ok. Stick with IDE or gor SATA on the optical?

Suggestion on any x1950pro, I'll look them up on newegg. That XFX card is nice 600MHZ/1600MHZ, but not HDCP.

[skool h8r]

RAM? I'd recommend Corsair. Although i have only used their DDR (not their DDR2), i would recommend them. Their modules nearly always overclock extremely well (i'm talking like 50mhz+ on each module easily).

As for your CPU cooler, the one you have is decent. But if you are wanting to do some insane overclocks, go for a Zalman. Or even an Akasa (if they do any for that socket). But if you're not going to be doing insane overclocks, the one you have is fine.

Also, HDD's. You should get rid of the raptors and replace them with Seagates. If you want them to be quiet, very cool, and very quick, i would strongly recommend doing RAID with a few seagates. The Raptors are designed mainly for gamers. Seeing as you use Photoshop, go for some that have 16mb cache since the extra will help a lot.

Now, cooling. To be honest, you will need decent airflow through a system like that. And the perfect way is to just get a cheap 120mm fan and mod it to 7v (it's very easy and i can show you how if you want) or just buy a resistor cable. Place that at the front of the case to take air in. You won't be able to hear it yet it will give enough air to keep the HDD's cool. You should repeat this at the back as well except have this fan so that it removes air from the back of the computer.

Lastly, noise. If you want a quiet system, you should buy some rubber mounts for you HDD's and fans. They are only a couple of dollars for about 4 and will make you system almost inaudible. It's a cheap investment but one you will want. You may not be bothered about sound that much. That's what i thought, now i regret not buying some rubber mounts for my HDD's (i don't want to pay shipping for something so small so i'm waiting until i buy something more expensive).

That pretty much wraps up the whole performance impovement side of things from me.

And welcome to the forum. Enjoy yourself!

[cadaveca]

$269.99
Cas Latency: 4
Heat Spreader: Yes
Timing: 4-4-3-5
Voltage: 2.0V - 2.1V
Model #: F2-6400CL4D-2GBHK


would be my pick for ram.

AS to the HDD's...the 7200.10's are perpendicular recording technology, making the platter density greater. because of this, seek and read time are lower than the regular drive, and performance is much higher. You'd be looking @ a maximum 30% increase(7200rpm to 10k rpm) with normal drives, but the 7200.10's lessen this to about 5-10% slower...for far cheaper. I'd hit up the 320gb 16mb models, as there are some 250gb models that are 8mb as well(failed 320gb's).

Motherboard...the P5B is Intel's 965 chipset, while the P5wDH is 975...and the 975 is the faster of the two. The P5B offers higher fsb speeds, if you are into overlcocking seriously, but given that you have chosen an e6600 for your cpu, sky-high FSB speeds are not that important. You'll probably end up @ 400x9 for 3.6ghz on an e6600...and that's a 50% increase!

curerntly all x1900pro's are made(assembled) by sapphire, although this will open up in the near future. Based on past experiences with Sapphire cards, I'd recommend the blue-pcb'd x1950...and make sure that HDCP is listed in teh specs, as it's the TMDS transmitters on the card that dictate this functionality, not the gpu.

Setting up a RAID on the P5W is easy as pie..in fact, you don't have to do anything...simply connect the drives, adn it should auto-configure the drives for RAID based on how you set jumpers on teh board itself. Default is RAID0, for amalgamating the two/three drives into one large one.

the second RAID would need some set-up, but it's really quite easy, and even easier from within windows(hence why the board offers the jumpers instead of a GUI). The extra bandwidth offered by a RAID config wil lgreatly improve performance, and most video-editing stations have this is a BASE SPEC, and not an option.

[mz_]

Originally Posted by skool h8r

As for your CPU cooler, the one you have is decent. But if you are wanting to do some insane overclocks, go for a Zalman. Or even an Akasa (if they do any for that socket). But if you're not going to be doing insane overclocks, the one you have is fine.

After looking at the Zalman's again, I think I'll choose one of those.

Originally Posted by skool h8r

Now, cooling. To be honest, you will need decent airflow through a system like that. And the perfect way is to just get a cheap 120mm fan and mod it to 7v (it's very easy and i can show you how if you want) or just buy a resistor cable. Place that at the front of the case to take air in. You won't be able to hear it yet it will give enough air to keep the HDD's cool. You should repeat this at the back as well except have this fan so that it removes air from the back of the computer.

Can you explain how to do the 7v mod?

Originally Posted by skool h8r

Lastly, noise. If you want a quiet system, you should buy some rubber mounts for you HDD's and fans. They are only a couple of dollars for about 4 and will make you system almost inaudible. It's a cheap investment but one you will want. You may not be bothered about sound that much. That's what i thought, now i regret not buying some rubber mounts for my HDD's (i don't want to pay shipping for something so small so i'm waiting until i buy something more expensive).

Good idea, will look into those.

[mz_]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

$269.99
Cas Latency: 4
Heat Spreader: Yes
Timing: 4-4-3-5
Voltage: 2.0V - 2.1V
Model #: F2-6400CL4D-2GBHK

would be my pick for ram.

That's what I was thinking too, don't know why they are cheaper than the other model with slower timing. Anyone have experience with G.Skill RAM?

Originally Posted by cadaveca

AS to the HDD's...the 7200.10's are perpendicular recording technology, making the platter density greater. because of this, seek and read time are lower than the regular drive, and performance is much higher. You'd be looking @ a maximum 30% increase(7200rpm to 10k rpm) with normal drives, but the 7200.10's lessen this to about 5-10% slower...for far cheaper. I'd hit up the 320gb 16mb models, as there are some 250gb models that are 8mb as well(failed 320gb's).

Great explanation. Just what I was looking for.

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Motherboard...the P5B is Intel's 965 chipset, while the P5wDH is 975...and the 975 is the faster of the two. The P5B offers higher fsb speeds, if you are into overlcocking seriously, but given that you have chosen an e6600 for your cpu, sky-high FSB speeds are not that important. You'll probably end up @ 400x9 for 3.6ghz on an e6600...and that's a 50% increase!

Again, great information. I'm new to overclocking, so probably won't want to hit any 'breaking points', but 3.6ghz wouldn't be bad at all. Newer chipset would probably be better too.

Originally Posted by cadaveca

curerntly all x1900pro's are made(assembled) by sapphire, although this will open up in the near future. Based on past experiences with Sapphire cards, I'd recommend the blue-pcb'd x1950...and make sure that HDCP is listed in teh specs, as it's the TMDS transmitters on the card that dictate this functionality, not the gpu.

I only see one x1950pro blue pcb. The SAPPHIRE 100176L Radeon X1950PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card for $189.99;

Core clock: 580MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
Memory Clock: 1400MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 12(36 Pixel shader processor )
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video/Composite Out
VIVO: No
Model #: 100176L

What would be the diffrence between the 20 PixelPipelines compared on the nVidia cards, compared to this 12(36)?

Great RAID info. Thanks.

[cadaveca]

You cannot think of pipelines like they were before...the pipelines do not do the same work, as AMD/Intel are juxtaposed currently. If you want to do it that way, it would be 20/36, with ATI winning, as teh ATI card can handle 36 pixels simultaneously, while the nVidia card can handle but 20. Of course, this is merely one stage of the piple to consider...there's texture fetching units, ROPs, input assemblers, thread dispatchers...etc, etc.

The X19xx series of card feature AVIVO, as well as offering HDR+AA, STREAM computing, as well as running Stanford's "Folding @ Home" Distributed computing project. Those acronyms all feature funtionality that you will get only on the 8800-series from nVidia(besides the AVIVO, nVidia has similar, but not the same by any means).



X19xx's offer same functionality as 8800-series!?! Does this make them DX10 cards!?!


No. And yes. For now, let's leave it at no. The R5xx generation of videocards ARE DX10 compliant, however they lack the geometry shader part. This, however, can be emulated, @ a 15% performance hit.

But then we could get into TRIFIRE and TRI-SLi....



EDIT:BTW, there's only one blue sapphire x1950

[mz_]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

EDIT:BTW, there's only one blue sapphire x1950

I see that.

BTW: Edited my first post to match my current plans.

[cadaveca]

850w is far too much for your system on air. 700w is more than enough, and migh help your power bill. the 850 OCZ unit is really new too...released in the last couple of weeks, so we do not really ahve any info about them, and how reliable they are. the 700w unit, however, seems very good.

[weldzilla]

I liked your initial plans. I will tell you though I would plunk down the extra money on the G.Skill 6400HZ. The P5W DH has onboard firewire which I use alot with my DV cam. I also wonder why you need a 850 watt psu not that the OCZ 850watt psu is a bad thing but,for you and what you are after it seems like a bit of overkill. All in all I am pleased though. you should have at least 3 or 4 years of good editing rendering on the machine before you start wanting more. Then you could always update to the Kentsfield. I love my P5W DH and as of right now i would not give anybody elses a sniff til more bugs get worked out.
Again if you are willing to spend that much on a PSU and Case. Get the G.Skill pc6400HZ! Go all the way.

WZ

[mz_]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

850w is far too much for your system on air. 700w is more than enough, and migh help your power bill. the 850 OCZ unit is really new too...released in the last couple of weeks, so we do not really ahve any info about them, and how reliable they are. the 700w unit, however, seems very good.

That explains why I couldn't find it on newegg. Would 700W still be good enough when DX10 cards come out, and maybe an upgrade to crossfire mode? Ahh.. I'll just get the 700W, I can always upgrade the PSU if need be down the road.

[mz_]

Originally Posted by weldzilla

I liked your initial plans. I will tell you though I would plunk down the extra money on the G.Skill 6400HZ. The P5W DH has onboard firewire which I use alot with my DV cam. I also wonder why you need a 850 watt psu not that the OCZ 850watt psu is a bad thing but,for you and what you are after it seems like a bit of overkill. All in all I am pleased though. you should have at least 3 or 4 years of good editing rendering on the machine before you start wanting more. Then you could always update to the Kentsfield. I love my P5W DH and as of right now i would not give anybody elses a sniff til more bugs get worked out.
Again if you are willing to spend that much on a PSU and Case. Get the G.Skill pc6400HZ! Go all the way.

WZ

Can you PM me a link to the RAM your talking about? The timings on the one I chose seem to be pretty decent though. Back to 700W on the PSU.

[cadaveca]

you might be better off with a 750w Zeus, or some such, that supports quad SLI...those power requireemnts should keep you safe in the future. Realistically, the PSU will only draw as much power it needs, and it's ratings are the maximums, and the max it can handle will decline over time as the capcitors start wear as soon as current is applied to them. i might be more pragmatic to buy a good, reliable 600w or so, and worry about more power when you need it. I run a FSP Epsilon 700w PSU(OCZ 700 GameXtreme is same unit with differnt fan and longer sleeving) with E6600 @ 3.7ghz, x1950Crossfire and slave, XBX, 2GB of ram, 11x120mm fans, Ageia Phys-X, MCP655 waterpumpm floppy, dvd, 6x 7200.10 HDD's.

[mz_]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

you might be better off with a 750w Zeus, or some such, that supports quad SLI...those power requireemnts should keep you safe in the future. Realistically, the PSU will only draw as much power it needs, and it's ratings are the maximums, and the max it can handle will decline over time as the capcitors start wear as soon as current is applied to them. i might be more pragmatic to buy a good, reliable 600w or so, and worry about more power when you need it. I run a FSP Epsilon 700w PSU(OCZ 700 GameXtreme is same unit with differnt fan and longer sleeving) with E6600 @ 3.7ghz, x1950Crossfire and slave, XBX, 2GB of ram, 11x120mm fans, Ageia Phys-X, MCP655 waterpumpm floppy, dvd, 6x 7200.10 HDD's.

I think I'll just stick with the 700W till I need bigger. 11x120mm Fans? what case do you have?

I'm worried about that Armour case with the side 250mm fan, and the Zalman CPU fan not having enough clearance. I might have to opt for a 'flat' CPU fan. Maybe I'll contact Thermaltake and Newegg to see what they say.

So can we say the above list (updated) is about 99% finalized?

Tax time is almost here.

[cadaveca]

I use a CM stacker 830. I've cut out the bottom opening(3x80mm) to accomodate 3x120mm. I'm still awaiting the final mobo for this build(DFI ICFX3200) before I post any pics tho...so 2x120mm in the front, 1x120mm in teh top, 1x120mm in the rear, 4x120mm in the side door, and 3x120mm in the bottom. The vidcards are not currently watercooled(will be by DangerDen Tyee kit), so the fans will remain in the door for the time being, but are not planned to be part of the final build. I've also got to add another 2x120mm rad in the front, which might make for a couple more fans yet...depending on how things go!

[mz_]

Sounds nice. I like the Stacker 830, it's more than I want to spend on a case though. Not easy finding a good air-cooling case with a good amount of 1