Linux Advocacy....

[hackeron]

This post, and those that follow originated from here. Since it was not a real and immediate solution, but an interesting thread in its own right, then I've split it off into its own topic in the proper place. Happy debating Kaitain
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All I can say is I've been a happy linux user for over 2 years now, and never looked back.

There is a learning curve, buts its no bigger than a beginner windows user's (as I have tested with computer illiterate users), so there. I recommend trying Xandros Linux 2, nicely polished for the beginner.

As answer comments about "I *need* to run windows software", first of all linux doesn't lack in any software, you just need to look at some commercial software as well as open source software. Disney for example use Linux in annimation and sound editing, and Chrysler use linux in car design. So I don't think the comment 'linux lacks sound editing software' or 'gimp (photoshop replacement) is weak' is valid, but the free sound editing software can be a little weak or atleast harder to use.

As for office, productivity, linux is really on top of windows. And If you want, I have articles of Microsoft officials stating linux and opensource will be the end of commercial programming (end to windows), and all the features of the upcomming windows longhorn (scheduled for end of 2006) doesn't include any features that aren't already used in linux, just not as wide spread in applications.

If however you are lazy to learn anything new, it is also no problem, you can run 99% of software/games for windows in winex emulator and win4lin emulator, which works wonders.

If you decide to try it, a nice support forum is http://justlinux.com/

Linux is proved to be more secure, more reliable, cheaper alternative to windows in any case, but has a relatively steep learning curve. It supports all standard file formats, and most windows file formats, but whatever formats are not supported, will be eliminated by the actions of Europe against MS.

Originally Posted by purplemohawkman

add BSOD

MEMORY MAGAEMENT
0x0000001A (0x00000780, 0xc0375218, 0x80900458, 0x8e49cccd)

[Gizmo]

Have you tried swaping your video card? The random nature of your BSODs suggests to me that you have a hardware problem of some kind. I'm thinking it is probably memory, but since you first noticed problems with your video card, that might be a good place to start. If that proves fruitless, I would try running memtest on the system, full test run.

[Daniel ~]

Originally Posted by hackeron

All I can say is I've been a happy linux user for over 2 years now, and never looked back.

There is a learning curve, buts its no bigger than a beginner windows user's (as I have tested with computer illiterate users), so there. I recommend trying Xandros Linux 2, nicely polished for the beginner.

As answer comments about "I *need* to run windows software", first of all linux doesn't lack in any software, you just need to look at some commercial software as well as open source software. Disney for example use Linux in annimation and sound editing, and Chrysler use linux in car design. So I don't think the comment 'linux lacks sound editing software' or 'gimp (photoshop replacement) is weak' is valid, but the free sound editing software can be a little weak or atleast harder to use.

As for office, productivity, linux is really on top of windows. And If you want, I have articles of Microsoft officials stating linux and opensource will be the end of commercial programming (end to windows), and all the features of the upcomming windows longhorn (scheduled for end of 2006) doesn't include any features that aren't already used in linux, just not as wide spread in applications.

If however you are lazy to learn anything new, it is also no problem, you can run 99% of software/games for windows in winex emulator and win4lin emulator, which works wonders.

If you decide to try it, a nice support forum is http://justlinux.com/

Linux is proved to be more secure, more reliable, cheaper alternative to windows in any case, but has a relatively steep learning curve. It supports all standard file formats, and most windows file formats, but whatever formats are not supported, will be eliminated by the actions of Europe against MS.

We too have a bit of a support Topic for Linux, some rather advanced users as well. There you will find disagreement with nearly every point you've made...except expense. But if your to lazy to learn anything new...":O}

[Kaitain]

In any case, I believe purplemohawkman's primary use for his machine is gaming, and Linux is seriously lacking there. (I have WineX - it's good, but not that good).

Maybe this will change in the future, but it's not there now.

[Kaitain]

It supports all standard file formats, and most windows file formats, but whatever formats are not supported, will be eliminated by the actions of Europe against MS.

This is DEFINITELY not true. The EU action against M$ is that Windows Media Player is such an intrinsic part of Windows that it currently breaks without it. This is allegedly anti-competitive as it means the likes of Apple Quicktime, Real Network's RealPlayer or open source alternatives like MPlayer simply don't get a look in.

The EU action will not outlaw custom software formats - this is not part of the problem. The issue is with the prevention of free choice of software.

I'd like that to be extended to MSN Messenger, which insists on starting in XP, despite the fact that, when I use Windows, Trillian's my messenger of choice...

Sorry to spam your thread, purplemohawkman - I'd agree with Gizmo's diagnosis; something hardware. You can eliminate the memory/cpu subsystem by running memtest86 for ~36hours. If you have any spare hardware, swap bits out until it works. Also Ghost an image of your drive, then try a fresh install to see whether that works. If it fails, you can always restore the old copy from the image.

[hackeron]

Originally Posted by Kaitain

This is DEFINITELY not true. The EU action against M$ is that Windows Media Player is such an intrinsic part of Windows that it currently breaks without it. This is allegedly anti-competitive as it means the likes of Apple Quicktime, Real Network's RealPlayer or open source alternatives like MPlayer simply don't get a look in.

The EU action will not outlaw custom software formats - this is not part of the problem. The issue is with the prevention of free choice of software.

I'd like that to be extended to MSN Messenger, which insists on starting in XP, despite the fact that, when I use Windows, Trillian's my messenger of choice...

Sorry to spam your thread, purplemohawkman - I'd agree with Gizmo's diagnosis; something hardware. You can eliminate the memory/cpu subsystem by running memtest86 for ~36hours. If you have any spare hardware, swap bits out until it works. Also Ghost an image of your drive, then try a fresh install to see whether that works. If it fails, you can always restore the old copy from the image.

First of all, yes, its not just EU's actions, I agree, but its definitely going that way. But most importantly is what formats doesn't linux support now? already all formats I use are supported, and viewers are open source so the formats become a standard, so that doesn't apply to those. I'm talking about the format to come with Windows Longhorn for M$ Office Longhorn, a format that is DRM based and closed source. That won't last (if its ever even adopted).

In anycase, this isn't really the place to discuss. So best just leave it at that.

As for most users on your linux forum disagreeing with my view, thats fine. Mine is mearly a view and it applies to me. I see no lack in software for linux, and I can do everything I was able to do on windows, just faster. I guess Disney, Chrysler and IBM share my view, maybe not fully, but they use it for most tasks and if ever promote windows its only for the home user whom cannot exactly be forced to switch to linux.

In anycase, I use linux for gaming, not entirely sure what games are unsupported, I play homeworld2, diablo2, call to power, RTCW enemy territory, UT2004 and Starcraft, all those games work flawless under linux, and performance is debatably faster.

[Kaitain]

In anycase, this isn't really the place to discuss. So best just leave it at that.

I have the power

We approach this from a different perspective. I use computers primarily for work - I play games occasionally, during rare periods when something more important isn't getting in the way.

Typically I have to handle large, complex documents and spreadsheets, write presentations, do a spot of simple programming and various simulations. I use Linux simply because I can do this legally on a student budget, and do my level best to ensure that the system is as fast and stable as possible so that it doesn't interfere with my work.

I can't honestly say that I've shared your life-changing view of Linux on the desktop - as far as I can tell it's just another flawed and buggy OS, no different than Windows for stability, but at least I get what I pay for.

But most importantly is what formats doesn't linux support now? already all formats I use are supported, and viewers are open source so the formats become a standard, so that doesn't apply to those.

To get into specifics: there are exactly two word processors worthy of the name in Linux that will open, read and save MS Word format documents, OpenOffice.org Writer (both normally and in commercial Star Office guise), and Abiword. KOffice isn't even worth considering, I've found. And yes, they will open and save MS Word files, provided it's a simple enough document. The nature of the work I do means that I regularly have to handle documents with large amounts of equations - Equation Editor objects simply vanish in Abiword, and have unpredictable results in OpenOffice. Ditto the other way - OO.o cannot save its XML-based equations in Word format; I get noticeable white space. Similarly embedded graphics vanish, become misaligned, or just generally screwed up. I use OO.o in Windows, too, and thankfully my university has Star Office. I can work around it. OO.o now exports to PDF too, which is more useful than you can imagine. BUT that is not MS Word compatability.

It's well to quote the features list, but when you actually try to use some of the features, the truth of the matter becomes apparent: Linux software can NOT open all MS Office format software. OO.o Calc can NOT run all MS Excel macros. OO.o Impress will fail to load much of PowerPoint's more attractive functions. This is not compatability, it's basic, broken support.

M$'s DRM model doesn't mean that other software will never be able to open M$ Office documents - it simply means the viewers will have to be commercial, and M$ will collect a royalty. Expect a rise in the use of PDFs - I know large engineering firms that still use Office '97, deeming the upgrades too expensive for what they are.

Other software:
I am still trying to hunt for a suitable replacement for AutoCAD. LinuxCAD is about up to where AutoCAD R13 was; my day to day requirements demand a more up to date spec. There is no drop in replacement.

I'm not a graphical person, but I can quote from a person in my family who is spending a lot of time and money digitally restoring thousands of old photographs that GIMP simply isn't up to the job. It's a very capable graphics program, but it is not Photoshop.

In anycase, I use linux for gaming, not entirely sure what games are unsupported, I play homeworld2, diablo2, call to power, RTCW enemy territory, UT2004 and Starcraft, all those games work flawless under linux, and performance is debatably faster.

I have had to work around all these problems by forking out money - CrossOver Office is a lifesave when you absolutely must have MS Office's full capability, AutoCAD or Photoshop. WineX is a lifesaver for when you want to play games and only have Linux to hand. BUT they are not perfect. WineX doesn't work with all games - a fact that Transgaming acknowledges readily. WineX is NOT faster than native Windows - it even states this in the WineX FAQ - because the system has to work harder to map the Win32 API and run the game.

I guess Disney, Chrysler and IBM share my view, maybe not fully, but they use it for most tasks and if ever promote windows its only for the home user whom cannot exactly be forced to switch to linux.

The enemy of my enemy? I would argue that it's more likely to be a bit of corporate politics, to make M$ sweat a bit than a serious move to Linux. Were IBM truly supporting Linux, I would find a nice little driver on their website so that I could make use of the ACPI, SMBus, suspend and sleep functions on my ThinkPad in Linux.

[Daniel ~]

hackeron, Greetings! I feel compelled to mention that we live for debate around here, when I don't know enough to get into one my self... I start something I know someone else can't resist!

I put in between 10 and 24 hours a day 6 usually 7 days a week, I get just a tad edgy when I'm told to lazy to do anything new! ":O}

Having had a chance to read more of your thoughts, I'm fairly convinced you meant no harm.

But it never hurts to consider that the next guy may have valid reasons for sticking with what he's clawed and scraped to learn. I hate MS attitude at lest as much as the next guy,

When Linux can load and run my constantly changing hardware, when people, people who know more than I do, stop spending weeks on it before giving up, I'll definitely give it another try!

on one of my 10 hour days":O}

[nki69c]

I've been using Mandrake 9.1 for about six months as a development environment for C++ just because I thought it was geekier than downloading DevC++ from download.com. I like Linux and I like its open source-ness. I still use Windows and the MacOS because I game, like to be the resident expert on everything and like to say things like, "Well I could talk to a college friend and he could get me the shareware version of that for free on Mac," whenever someone pays $10 for useful but not $10 worth program. I like Linux unfortunately it still doesn't recognize the sound card on the computer that it is running on but I don't play music or anything on it so it is fine. The fact that more and more games are coming out with linux dedicated server applications proves the power of the OS. I forgot what the point of this post was so I am going to stop writing.

[Áedán]

Having tried OpenOffice to edit a MS Word document, I found that OpenOffice read in Word documents fine. Unfortunately, using OpenOffice to save it in Word format screwed the document formatting big time. That's rather less than 'compatible'.

In terms of companies like Disney, it seems like they're working on improving Wine, and moving some of their tools from other unix platforms across.

In terms of more secure? I'd debate that! Linux seems to have enough security holes of it's own without throwing things like Wine and X into the mix.

Learning curve? For what I've been doing recently, astronomical! Anything that requires you to read the code to work out how to do things is crazy. Documentation seems to be a real sticking point for Open Source. Half the time there's little to no documentation, and the other half the time it's painfully out of date with respect to the application it describes.

[danrok]

Try opening a Word doc in Publisher, actually don't! Even some simple cut n paste actions between some MS apps causes problems.

My thoughts are that large organisations are taking to Linux because they can afford to employ their own guys to build the exact applications they want exactly as they want them without having to involve third parties. Their completed applications then have distinct commercial value which is entirely their property.

Of course this benfit doesn't apply to an individual.

[Áedán]

I wouldn't open a Word document in Publisher. However, I would expect a word processor that claims file compatibility with Word to be able to handle Word files. OpenOffice claims that "The product is a multi-platform office productivity suite compatible with all major file formats."

Given that a Word document is probably the foremost editable document format, OpenOffice isn't living up to what it's claiming. As far as the existing documents I have go, I'm not even going to try to import them into OpenOffice. It might be more honest for OpenOffice to claim that their product is partially compatible with major file formats.

[nki69c]

Having OpenOffice handle Word docs is like letting Linux handle NTFS when it is reading it you think you are the smartest person alive because you didn't have to FAT format your windows partition. Then you let Linux write NTFS and you wonder when your four year old daughter picked up software programming.