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Old 26th November, 2009, 07:16 PM
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At its best, is open source unbeatable?

Written by Daniel
Thursday, 26 November 2009 18:07

When an open-source project is working optimally, can proprietary-software companies hope to compete?

Eat my dust, proprietary sloths...

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Old 26th November, 2009, 07:40 PM
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Must be a geek thing to gloat over a rate of change that includes 11,000 added lines and 2,200 modified lines of code each day. I can tell you that there isn't much to be happy about on my end from this rate of change, quite the opposite actually. I don't find myself being thankful for apps that worked last week no longer work this week.

I think I am finally starting to see the problem though, while these devs are constantly developing the OS, they never have to actually use it for anything other than developing or blogging.. It will be very hard for anyone making quality software to keep up with the rate of change..
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Old 26th November, 2009, 07:41 PM
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The article makes the case that for large-scale projects, properly managed, open source cannot be beaten. While I believe this to be true, I don't think that the argument is limited to large-scale projects.

While a project that is sufficiently small to be handled by a single company might be of too narrow an interest to have the kind of OSS response that something like the kernel does, the fact remains that a company that opens its software can benefit from people outside the organization looking at the source code and can gain the benefit of expertise that might not otherwise be brought to bear.
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Old 26th November, 2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccperf721p View Post
I think I am finally starting to see the problem though, while these devs are constantly developing the OS, they never have to actually use it for anything other than developing or blogging.. It will be very hard for anyone making quality software to keep up with the rate of change..
When I worked at DVI, we had a rather open-sourcish approach to development, in that we always had a development image that was constantly changing. This DID cause some problems for our customers, in that it was near to impossible to get a bug fix for a problem that didn't also include some features that were incompletely developed.

When I took over development, our process changed slightly. We still had a constant development image, but we would also do 4 releases a year. There weren't usually any specific targets as far as features or what-not, but once we hit our release date, all development of that version was frozen except for bug fixes. We would then run it through a suite of tests that we had developed. The final test in that set was that QA would try to dream up screwy ways of using the software to see if they could break things.

The net result of this was that we never released a software package that had any 'known issues' (which is a term I really, REALLY loathe; if the software has known issues, they need to be fixed before it is released). As a consequence, the number of field reported problems dropped off DRAMATICALLY, and because we also instituted source code control, we could go back to a particular version and patch it when an issue was found.

What I'm trying to say with this long-winded dissertation is that, while I think you are correct in your suspicions, the problem IS manageable and CAN be addressed. It just needs someone to see the need to do so, and the willingness to do so.
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Old 26th November, 2009, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccperf721p View Post
Must be a geek thing to gloat over a rate of change that includes 11,000 added lines and 2,200 modified lines of code each day. I can tell you that there isn't much to be happy about on my end from this rate of change, quite the opposite actually. I don't find myself being thankful for apps that worked last week no longer work this week.

I think I am finally starting to see the problem though, while these devs are constantly developing the OS, they never have to actually use it for anything other than developing or blogging.. It will be very hard for anyone making quality software to keep up with the rate of change..
Some how I knew you'd get all uppity about this! ":O}
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Old 28th November, 2009, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~ View Post
Some how I knew you'd get all uppity about this! ":O}
Damn right I get uppity. I get it just the way I like it, they spend hours trying to devise a plan to break it. It compares to the road work around here. Lay down some nice flat, smooth asphalt that is joy to drive on, 90 days later tear it back up to lay new pipe underneath, after that the road just isn't what is was..
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Old 28th November, 2009, 03:06 AM
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I didn't say uppity was an unreasonable reaction...":O}
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Old 28th November, 2009, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~ View Post
I didn't say uppity was an unreasonable reaction...":O}
I didn't think it was unreasonable either, but for some reason I keep getting kicked from irc channels and mailing lists. While linux has a solid philosophy, it lacks a solid direction and leadership. It seems the linux world has grown comfortable with being an alternative to Windows and Mac in the desktop market, rather than striving to be a competitor.

I ask a lot out of my OS, multimedia-server, encoding, internet, banking, business accounting, cad work, 3D modeling, controlling two other linux based machines, some gaming and whatever else I might need that day. I just don't think I'm asking for too much when I ask to be able to do those things on a daily basis as I would be able to do in Windows or OSX.
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Old 28th November, 2009, 06:38 AM
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Is there a Linux desktop that straight up can give you what you need? Rather how long does it take you to torture a destro in submission to your will? ":O}
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Old 29th November, 2009, 04:09 AM
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About the only thing I can use is Gentoo. It offers the most flexibility, but also remains the most time consuming. I try to apply only security updates, but what I find is that even staying up with security updates screws with the way I want to run to my system. ie Package "A" is installed and dependent on package "B" , security updates want to replace package "B" which breaks package "A".

I just feel linux devs need to pay a little more attention to the quality of code being developed and not the amount.
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Old 29th November, 2009, 09:51 AM
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Talking

What can I say CC is right once more. Not that he is perfect! The answer to that question is far more simple. A simple NO would do !!!
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I've heard that linux community came up with better implemented security in it's latest Linux Mint Gold version, it's actually preventing the user to log in, thus posing 0 risk in contamining the computer with malware! Well done to the open source community!

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Old 29th November, 2009, 04:57 PM
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Unfortunately the bard is right in this case. He shouldn't be, considering the sheer amount of talented developers working with linux.

Daniel has been with linux long enough for me to ask this. After all of the upgrades, updates and reinstalls, have you really noticed anything different? Changing stuff just to be changing stuff is a complete waste of time.
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Old 29th November, 2009, 05:19 PM
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Linux's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness.

It suffers from what I refer to as "The Engineer's Curse" (cue appropriately spooky music).

The basic problem is that engineers have a really hard time not tinkering with stuff to improve it. Most engineers have never really gotten the whole concept of 'Good Enough'. To an engineer, 'Good Enough' is simply another way of saying "I didn't have enough time to make it better".

With Linux, there are no deadlines to meet, no release schedules to keep, because all of the work is done on a volunteer basis. It's not like you can fire someone if they don't get their work done on time.

As a result, there are always new ideas being explored. That's good, in the sense that Linux is always evolving, but it's bad from the standpoint that, as Cliff has noted "It's perpetually not finished".
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Old 29th November, 2009, 07:26 PM
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@ Cliff

Very little. Fedora boots like a bat out of hell now, Compiz works much better than it use to for me, very solid now, when I can install Video drivers...RhythmBox is a joy to me! I can now stream aac 128.M3U from Paradise Radio, ( Mint's had this capability for a while now, but Fedora just gained it.

Fedora is on a very strange trip as far as I'm concerned...they want to be my desktop, but don't have drivers for my Video card as a matter of principle?
(Talk about a GIANT step back!!) Why release a distro so flawed it can't do 3D when the last 3, 4 or maybe even 5 releases Could!?? ( I'm talking at install, not what the user is "able" to get working "if we all pull together to figure this out"!

Don't get me wrong, I love working with our small Linux community, but I shouldn't need help with an Nvidia driver at this late date!

Most of what I do in Linux is purely elective,... something I want to try and do in order to do something":O}

My basic needs have been pretty much met for the last two years, Mint 7 made it all stable and reliable, mint 7 just works in every way I need and want it two... so in a sense Fedora is more fun for me. Mint7 let's me wait with complete calm for fixes in Fedora! LOL
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Old 30th November, 2009, 08:02 AM
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I still think that installing the NVIDIA drivers directly from the .run file on the NVIDIA site is easier than any other method I have tried. Others may disagree, but success can't be argued.

I have successfully and painlessly done it this way on Xubuntu, Yoper, Sidux, Mint and now Fedora while playing around, so it may work on other non-Debian distros as well. I no longer feel hesitant to compile a new kernel, fearing that I may not be able to get the driver working, breaking compiz in the process. I'm currently putzing with the Zen/ck kernel/scheduler combination, and have had no problems whatsoever installing new drivers into any new kernel I have compiled. I have done this at least a dozen times in the past several weeks.

All you have to do is enter a terminal or boot to one, shut down x and run the file. The script compiles the module and loads it. I didn't even have to reboot on any of my tests, just starting x was enough

PS I've gotten my working kernel configuration to under 3MB now, and everything I need works well...so my recent Linux chronicles are positive rather than negative.


EDIT I prolly posted this in the wrong place...maybe it belongs in the driver thread. Move it if you want...
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Old 30th November, 2009, 07:56 PM
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Please do ThunderRD I promise to give it a try, a step by step will be required, as one would lead a little child..":O}
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