Your own "power plant" can save energy

[danrok]

Read about this on the front page:
http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/content/view/1860/1/

Comments?

[Favu]

Sounds like a pretty cool idea

[danrok]

Originally Posted by Favu

Sounds like a pretty cool idea

More of a HOT idea!

[Wolf2000me]

I don't know. Gas is pretty expensive, certainly compared with the equivalent power through electricity.

[Daniel ~]

I ALWAYS wanted one of my very own! But gas is expensive here to...Still, dreams die hard...

[Staz]

Actually gas prices are dropping rapidly. They are down to about $7.50/mmbtu which is about half of what they were after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. They are expect to drop another 30% in the absense of any hurricanes.

I doubt prices will drop to the $4 mark where they were durring the glut of the earlie 90's but those prices were artificially low due to an over abundace of reserves and supply outweighing demand. Now many more natural gas power plants have been constructed and there isn't the mismatch any more.

But all of that is besides the point.

The whole point of this is that you are already using gas to heat your homes in winter. So instead of useing gas to heat your home you use gas to make electricity and use the waste heat from that process to heat your home.

It really is a good idea if you live in a cold weather climate. It is in the same ball bark as useing high efficancy low e windows. It cost more to build but it will save money and energy in the long run. It is better for the enviorment and better for your wallet.

I don't know what the energy prices are in Belgum so I can't comment on that.

[danrok]

At $13,500, the cost of the system is roughly twice what somebody would pay for a high-end furnace, Guyer said. But he calculates that people can save $800 to $1,000 a year on electricity, which means the payback would be quicker than conventional heating.

I assume that's based on current US gas prices.

They say this system is already widely used in Japan.

And for the UK:

In the United Kingdom, there are at least four micro-combined heat and power systems already available, according to the Cogen Europe industry association, which calculates that more than half of the U.K.'s households are suitable.

Systems in Europe are often designed to look and operate like an appliance, placed under a kitchen counter, for example, rather than tucked in a basement.

Because of its efficiency, a micro-CHP system can reduce a household's greenhouse gas emissions by 25 percent, according to the U.K.'s Micropower Council.

[danrok]

One of the major flaws with big central power plants is the wastage of energy accross all the cabling. The voltage drops accross the length of copper wire.

Having power generated right where it's need is more efficient from that point of view.

[Daniel ~]

Originally Posted by Staz

Actually gas prices are dropping rapidly. They are down to about $7.50/mmbtu which is about half of what they were after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. They are expect to drop another 30% in the absense of any hurricanes.

I doubt prices will drop to the $4 mark where they were durring the glut of the earlie 90's but those prices were artificially low due to an over abundace of reserves and supply outweighing demand. Now many more natural gas power plants have been constructed and there isn't the mismatch any more.

But all of that is besides the point.

The whole point of this is that you are already using gas to heat your homes in winter. So instead of useing gas to heat your home you use gas to make electricity and use the waste heat from that process to heat your home.

It really is a good idea if you live in a cold weather climate. It is in the same ball bark as useing high efficancy low e windows. It cost more to build but it will save money and energy in the long run. It is better for the enviorment and better for your wallet.

I don't know what the energy prices are in Belgum so I can't comment on that.

Well, when you explain it like that...I still want one! ":O}

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by danrok

One of the major flaws with big central power plants is the wastage of energy accross all the cabling. The voltage drops accross the length of copper wire.

Having power generated right where it's need is more efficient from that point of view.

Last figures I saw said that up to 25% of the power generated is wasted on the transmission lines, PARTICULARLY in the 10 miles or so, because of the relatively low voltage and high current.

This could be alleviated by increasing the voltage, but that creates increased issues with EMI and RF radiation.

[Daniel ~]

I see home power generation as the way of the future for any who can set up and manage it.

Once we impeach Bush and friends we might get lucky and have some REAL money thrown at alternative power generation. Whole lot of things are falling just short of total practicality, a hard push research wise could make an amazing difference over the next twenty years.

[danrok]

Originally Posted by Daniel ~

I see home power generation as the way of the future for any who can set up and manage it.

Once we impeach Bush and friends we might get lucky and have some REAL money thrown at alternative power generation. Whole lot of things are falling just short of total practicality, a hard push research wise could make an amazing difference over the next twenty years.

It need not be on an individual home basis.

In densely populated areas, a row of house could share a generator and the heat it provides - or an apartment block.

That way the community gets to make its choices over fuel and emmsisions, renewable sources, etc. Instead of CEOs who can only think of their own back pockets.

[Daniel ~]

I hope your active locally in your community Dan, you have a lot great ideas!

[Wolf2000me]

Originally Posted by Staz

Actually gas prices are dropping rapidly. They are down to about $7.50/mmbtu which is about half of what they were after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. They are expect to drop another 30% in the absense of any hurricanes.

I doubt prices will drop to the $4 mark where they were durring the glut of the earlie 90's but those prices were artificially low due to an over abundace of reserves and supply outweighing demand. Now many more natural gas power plants have been constructed and there isn't the mismatch any more.

But all of that is besides the point.

The whole point of this is that you are already using gas to heat your homes in winter. So instead of useing gas to heat your home you use gas to make electricity and use the waste heat from that process to heat your home.

It really is a good idea if you live in a cold weather climate. It is in the same ball bark as useing high efficancy low e windows. It cost more to build but it will save money and energy in the long run. It is better for the enviorment and better for your wallet.

I don't know what the energy prices are in Belgum so I can't comment on that.

Electricity is pretty cheap but for warming homes with gas or diesel fuel there's a tax cut in place.
We warm our house and water with diesel fuel here. I'm pretty sure the same principle could be applied. I'll be sure to check it out, you're right it might be a good investment, actually.

[danrok]

Originally Posted by Wolf2000me

Electricity is pretty cheap but for warming homes with gas or diesel fuel there's a tax cut in place.
We warm our house and water with diesel fuel here. I'm pretty sure the same principle could be applied. I'll be sure to check it out, you're right it might be a good investment, actually.

I believe heating oil would work just fine with a suitable turbine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine#Microturbines

Heating oil, diesel and aviation jet fuel are much the same anyhow.

[cloasters]

I still can't believe how thin the conductors are that carry serious power. I don't really know, tbh, but the 110 kv(?) lines that run on top of regular "telephone" poles seem mighty thin to me.

[keithwalton]

Originally Posted by danrok

One of the major flaws with big central power plants is the wastage of energy accross all the cabling. The voltage drops accross the length of copper wire.

Having power generated right where it's need is more efficient from that point of view.

That and the dumping of waste heat to atmosphere is just throwing away energy that can be used elsewhere.

My uni runs a combined heating and power gas turbine, at the moment it powers high demand systems like the super computer, wind tunnel etc and when its reliable enough it'll power most of the uni.
Most of the heat it produces goes into the central heating system of the uni, its the only 'boiler' we use these days and it runs rather hot even during winter so its still dumping some heat to atmos out of its exhausts and some through heat exhchangers.

Some buildings near the generator are running too hot atm (27C min room temp) and others further away are to cold (18C room temp) so there are a few gremlins left. Not to mention what to do during the summer!

The city of southampton also has a similar system, there is a geothermal power plant in the city centre which powers the local mall and council offices, the heat byproduct also heats the same places it powers

[danrok]

Originally Posted by cloasters

I still can't believe how thin the conductors are that carry serious power. I don't really know, tbh, but the 110 kv(?) lines that run on top of regular "telephone" poles seem mighty thin to me.

Most likely the power has been stepped up to a higher voltage, so a thinner cable can be used.

You may find there's a small substation of some kind near you, where the voltage gets stepped down to 110 volts.

Although, I don't know if they go about all this in the same way in the US.