Before I get carried away upon a data stream of shear delight...HELP!

[Daniel ~]

This new chip is kinda scaring me! Like dating in jr high school...what the hell do you do when she always says YES!

I'm using a

Asus Sabertooth Z77
intel 2600K
16 gigs G.SKill PC3 17000 DDR3 2133
3X Corsair SSD 90 gig HD
Koolance 1000 watt Water cooler, 370 Koolance Water Block
Corsair AX 750 Watt 80 Plus professional


I need to set some guide lines! I need the security of limitation!!

I now have 24 hours Folding at 5.0 Gigs

Upped the offset voltage a bit (really just a bit!) and I'm folding a 5.1

My ambient temp yesterday and last night was in the low 80sF

CPU temps off die by Koolance never got past 42C (So around 44-46C ) running folding 24/3

(Hey I'll get to 7 ":O}

As you can see ( pic at the bottom of post) the core temps look scary...are they? What are the max "SAFE" core temps for the 2600K?

Even though the "Thermal Armor" raised an eyebrow and produced a sceptical smile... Sababertooth is my favorite board ever...right up there with the P5Q

If you set a under-volted OC and boot... it doesn't crash, it doesn't say no and refuse to boot...it simply gives you as much of your over clock as you have given it voltage for...I kid you not!

I briefly tried 5.2 at the same voltage settings as 5.0... it gave up 4750 stable as a rock, 4750. If you go to far with this...(Hey I had to find out!) It halts the boot screen and tells you you a failure and a bum and to come back when you have some real voltage to spend... (see... just like in Jr High School! I have scars!!)

As I upped the voltage in BIOS..Max Turbo OC started to climb back up on the desk top, enough Volts and 5.2 is easy, getting it stable at a "reasonable" voltage I'm not at all sure of. But I intend to find out...":O}


*I do know some are running a 1.5v., it looks like 5.1 is going to cost me 1.40 -1.42

( I'm looking at and adjusting Load-line, lower really gives up a nice drop in core temps. but an increase in CPU "Droop" Which I gather is OK to some extent but needs to be decreased as Turbo multiplyers go up. But I found "extreme" to be way over the mark at 5.1 I'm just using "High"

Can any one give or point to MAX "safe" voltage for the 2600K?

I have a pretty good general idea as The Off set voltage numbers change colors as the go up...but I've been in the red so long it looks like yellow or maybe white to me...":O}

[Aedan]

Ignore the off-core temperature, as it's unlikely to be where you hit dangerous points (unless you have a really bad set up!)

Intel specify a maximum core temperature of 98C. The i7z image you attached shows that you're already hitting 91C on one of your cores, so you're already pretty close to the maximum temperature. On that basis I personally wouldn't want to increase the voltage any more! I'd rather reduce those temperatures a little first.

In theory, if you exceed the maximum temperature, the core will stop until it cools down. That's rather counter productive for overclocking!

[Daniel ~]

Yestuday, all day and night The Ambeient was in the low 80s F. hard to hold 50 and 51 in the face of that reality... Dropped back to 4800 for the night and Core temps dropped to the low 70S. At 5.1 I was hitting 93 as top temp, on a core.

Question!?

My No# 1 core is ALWAYS 10 to 11 degrees cooler that the aother three...is this normal? Is the cool one the Queen? Why is she so cool!?

Ah! another question Aedan,

My Turbo setting of 4800 keeps bouncing back and forth between 49.99 and 4800, this is accompanied by a vacillation between 3510 and 3511 as the CPU base clock .

Can you explain these things to me please.":O}

Would you please explain :

"C1 = Processor running with halts (States >C0 are power saver)" Power saver? what's happening here?

At first I thoiugh I could calm things with more volts, now not so sure that's the cause...?

[Aedan]

The numbers refer to the power state of the CPU
C0 means the core is executing instructions (working)
C1 means the core is halted, but can be good to go straight away. (idle)
C3 means the core is stopped and it's clock stopped. (power save)
C6 means the core is powered down.

Don't worry about the bouncing around - I think it might be to do with how i7z measures the speed.

No idea why one core is slightly cooler!

[Gizmo]

Core temp will vary according to load (cores not working as hard will be cooler). As the loading is a function of the software that is running, my guess is that core #1 is the one running most of the OS functions, while the other cores are spending more time running the benchmark. As well, the thermal bonding of the die isn't uniform, so it's not unusual to have localized 'hot spots' on the die.

Personally, I wouldn't push over about 70-75 on the cores as a normal matter of course. High temps tend to induce premature failures, especially when overclocking.

[Daniel ~]

70-75C? Man your really limited my play here! ":O}

Getting there though.. still working on bring my temps down, 68F Ambient here now, just took this pic to let you guys know how it's going...Haven't even looked at what my RAM might do by upping 2133 or by hitting the BCLK for 103-105, I'm told there's some play there.

Load-Line seems key here when it comes to temps. Basically I get as much as I can without it, then when more temps won't get me my way, requires too much voltage to go, I lower voltage just a bit andthen increase (as small as possible) load line.

Load-Line increases temps but can bring stablity...when it's needed...I use "Regular" at 4800. "medium" at 5.0 Everyone, most everyone else just hits Max on load-line, but then everyone else has higher temps than I do.... well most everyone else...":O}

Suggestions are most welcome.

Thans A, I figured the lazy core had to be the Queen! ":O}

[Daniel ~]

All my test and set up have been done with Folding running, I'll try Phoronix as a stimulus to 5.0 and see if core priorities change...?

CPU Stress test Pic:

[Daniel ~]

Everyone is still humoring that lazy Queen! ":O}

Surprized to see the Stress test push temps above Folding usage! Guess I have a new stresser to please temps wise...

[Daniel ~]

This is from singularity Computers, Using a 9 Fan Danger Den Water cooler, with THREE triple radiators (I on the other hand only need three fans and one radiator )

Watch the Vidieo just to see this water cooler!! I don't care how it works, it could heat the CPU and I'd still want one! LOL

(I'm also being HORRIBLY unfair to Sigularity Computers, This is a unrefined first OC and being done on the fly as a demo, I have ZERO doubt that if it was more than that, we would see endless refinement. These guys with thire Videos have helped me a great deal... But my OC, does not look like theirs and although I intend to replicate theirs, I don't think this will change. As they mention each chip is different and I'm on a different Asus board. That said...let's go back to being HORRIBLY unfair!! ":O}

Please note their temps at 4400, not that I'm one to make such comparisons...":O}

It's a good Overclocking Guide in general for the 2600K

(They have such cool toys!!":O}

The second one Part II Video) is at 5.0

And merely as a point of interest and in no way to be looked upon as a compairsion, I offer my own contrabution as a work in progress...":O}

[Daniel ~]

Getting there Gizmo...

Thanks Aedan on the switching thing....one less thing..

But I'm still interested...Strange,... it seems to be an off voltage thing, One setting it switches,Sometimes slow some times fast, one or two up or down it's a rock with only Temps and CO moving...EVER.

1.385v Stable for 1 hour under folding....And yes in case you just missed it, I just lowered the bar for stability!

(I haven't seen anyone even trying anything below 1.4...say....could there be a reason for that?

I seriously doubt I'm going to be able to lower voltage from here on, but you just gotta know I'm going to try!

Load line is a Killer, at some point your going to need it, or need to raise, as you try to lower voltage and maintain your multiple, or you freeze up on desktop...but when you do....Well from "Medium" to the next up "High" is 9 degrees C right there on every core!

*stable but killing your dreams of a 'Useable" overclock temps wise. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one, makes typing hell, but I'm committed!":O}

I'm going to shut down Folding and open the Phoronix CPU Stress test and see how well my temps and settings hold up...(?)

[Daniel ~]

Kinda brutal.... Makes folding look like my over indulgent mother as stress tests go...

Interesting thing is the No# 1 core, she remained the same temp even as the sisters when to 79-80...I guess there wasn't to much Queen work to do once she told them all to put their faces in the mud and grunt-out a stress test for the Daniel~

...But I'm just guessing, I don't to much about Queens...

(Sometimes because of my authoritative use of technical language people think I know much more than I do. I would consider it dishonest on my part not to correct such a misimpression!)

[Daniel ~]

This is it folks, what left isn't worth going after temps wise... I just hope your happy Gizmo, I spent all day and half the night in the Kitchen just to make sure I didn't burn it!

My Best V-Core setting turned out to be a some what ridiculous 1.354-1.356...it fluctuates in the BIOS (offset Voltage). Most get around, well most use 1.415 to 1.425 to get 4800...

Up to 1.5 just bench 5.0 and go home.

Some sweet chip...Someone must have sacrificed a chicken for me! Thanks!!

[Aedan]

The load-line stuff is, well, interesting.

Load-line is designed to take into account that the CPU can switch from idle to flat out and back again very quickly. This can cause issues with trying to regulate the voltage to the CPU. If the CPU is running flat out, it may be needing around 140A of current to keep it running. When it switches to lower power, it may only need 14A of current. That is a huge change, and can result in spikes in the voltage supplied to the CPU when this change occurs. (If this sounds familiar when you look at mains and heavy duty appliances kicking in and out, it's because it is!)

The load-line stuff is designed to slightly lower the voltage when the CPU requires more power. The more power the CPU requires, the lower the voltage ends up. This helps to avoid the spike in voltage when the CPU comes off load. There's some info here with some pictures: AnandTech - Overclocking Intel's New 45nm QX9650: The Rules Have Changed

It looks like that higher the load-line calibration is set in the BIOS, the less voltage drop happens when the CPU is under load. The downside is that will increase power consumption and hence increase the temperatures. The manual isn't very clear, but your results are!

[Daniel ~]

This is all "Asus Z77 Tuning guide" Has to say, at lest a bit helpful...

"Load-Line Calibration: AKA LLC, sets the margin between applied and load voltage. For
24/7 use a setting of 50% is considered optimal, providing the best balance between set and
load voltage in a manner that compliments the VRM for all loading conditions. Some users
prefer using higher values, although this will impact overshoot to a small degree."

Yet all but one Guide suggest that you just max this value out at the get go and forget it...

I found balancing minimum voltage with the minimum value that sustains that voltage, preventing lock ups, gave me my best results...

Imagine, a feature that cripples your CPU's features, "At last no more Load line!!"

I would have never seen above 4800
(4.8 is set to "Regular" the lowest manual setting.)
without that one bounce up to "Medium".

I really couldn't go up any further than 5.0 The next 100MHz cost too much in voltage=Temps to even consider pushing temps even further up in Load line to stabilize it.

My chip sits comfortably at 5.0, but the rest is for better chips or better overclockers.

I read that Intel is setting voltages on each chip as they test them, the Author suggested that this will mean a far greater variance between chips than we are used to seeing,

Sorry can't remember where, I've been doing a ton of midnight reading and video watching.

I can get 5.1 stable but it jumps from 65/66, on No#1 core and 70-75 on the other three under load to 70-73 on No#1 and Low to mid 80's on the other three.

Just not a good deal for a 100MHz on a 5000 MHz scale.":O}

That Core thermal Max seems to need to be taken seriously! I have WAY more cooling than this chip needs, but it's really not a factor, at a certain point you just can't control the heat.

My pump, set to 56% and my fans on the radiator set to 50% do as much for cooling as can be done...more has no effect...there's diffently a Thermal line drawn in the sand that cooling can't erase.

The 22 Ivy's are going to be rather scary I think, all will be good and happy data, and then come the tears and like smoke in the wind, beyond all repair...

[cloasters]

Dude,5 Ghz? That's a screamin' box you gots there!

[Daniel ~]

It's shedding Folding units as I type! But 5.0 is definitely an under 75F setting. Asus BIOS now lets you save your settings at lest 8 sets maybe more. It also lets you save them to a thumb drive...way cool... I just click in the BIOS and I'm at my far more reasonable 4800 settings and Folding has a chance to pull herself together a bit...":O}

[Daniel ~]

Just put the finishing touches on my 4.8 settings....as far as voltage goes it's even more remarkable than my 5.0 settings. 4.8 @ 1.248v.

5.0 only costs 1.354v, way lower than most but still hard to cool at ambient above 75C. I can do it, but it seems inelegant

that's a lot of voltage and a lot of cooling power and a reasonable amount of noise increase for... 200MHz...I'm likeing 4800 more as I get to know her...check these temps....running 77F ambient.

[ThunderRd]

FWIW, I have always used the "LLC disabled" setting. I can't say that it would not be useful on extreme overclocks, but for my purposes I've found that I gained absolutely no extra stability from it.

Generally, the overclocking community recommends that it be disabled, as well.

I liked the article Aedan posted from AnandTech; it quite clearly explains the relationship between Vdroop and Voffset, and why removing them should only be done in highly specific situations.

I have the same QX9650 processor used in the article; I checked my BIOS settings and found them to agree with what AnandTech says. That being said, though, IDK if the suggestions apply in the same way to the i7 CPUs or not.

[Daniel ~]

You showed up right on time! Right after I posted my 4800 temps, I went into lock up, waits three hours of folding, waits for me to post settings, then she locks up.

I may be wrong but from my experence working with the 5.0 settings, going From Medium to High should end that nonsence... Just a hunch...":O}

LLC doesn't seem to have as much impact on my temps as it does with 5.0 setting, Don't know if it's the higher Voltage (much higher) or the multiplyer...both?

Several of my Guides have said that in the past they just turned off Turbo speed step and LLC, hey me to! But The Ivy chipset along with the K series chips make this a new ball game.

Ok We use to clock the FSB, Then we clocked the Multiplyers. Now we won't be doing either one! This is the part that TOTALLY alludes me. We are Overclocking the Turbo, and the Turbo isn't the FSB. The BCLK is I guess what's left of the FSB. THEY say that my chip is unlocked, then they tell me that the chip will always run at 3.4, it's the Turbo that will run up to 5.0 gigs.....by my setting the chips multiplyers...WHAT???

Oh just anyone feel free to jump in a set me stright! ":O}

[Daniel ~]

They say.... that you can just turn off turbo and Speed step and OC the Multiplyers... I may give that a shot tomorrow, seems like if this was a good solution I'd have found more on the topic...?