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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 19th November, 2006, 06:30 AM
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OK guys! What's the best deal in an s939 o/c cpu these days?

I've a 4200 and 3800 X2, both bought before the core-duo enduced AMD price collapse (naturally ). I'd like to bump an existing s939 board to a nice performing cost effective X2 or Opteron Dual core. Anything especially worthwhile out there? (I'd prefer a higher multiplier so it can be used with standard speed 3200 DDR.)

TIA -- Trevor

PS. I actually like the idea of an Opteron if price effective -- hate to repeat my choices, and 4400, 4600, and 4800 X2 seem to be sold out .

PPS. Haven't pursued this topic for awhile, but any sign of AMD coming back since the Conroe happening?
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Last edited by TrevorS; 19th November, 2006 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 19th November, 2006, 01:54 PM
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Probably the Opty 165 is your "best value" for o/c'ing. Going to the 170 gets you the 10x multiplier, but it may not be needed- YMMV.
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Old 20th November, 2006, 04:23 AM
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Hi there,

Thanks for the suggestions. I took a look and as you say, the Opteron 165 is certainly an attractive price and should be a good overclocker. My experience with my 3800+ (x10) is that I had to use memory capable of much higher clocking than 200MHz -- actually running 250MHz capable DDR 400. I can pull maybe 212MHz on my standard DDR, but that's really about the limit.

Because of this, I've decided to go with a 4600+ X2. The multiplier is 12, giving a little better performance with the standard speed memory. I really don't want to buy new memory in addition to the new processor.

PS. I guess I should consider the Conroe, but that requires new everything -- not cost effective. As it is, I still need to pick up a gutsier power supply to ripple down through my machines. Don't know what that'll be, but I've noticed dual core power requirements are significantly higher than single core on my machines .
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Old 21st November, 2006, 03:16 AM
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Not to mention current Vidcards. Ai yai yai!
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Old 21st November, 2006, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloasters
Not to mention current Vidcards. Ai yai yai!
Tell me about it!

I swapped in an X1600 AGP for a 9600 in a highly reliable Athlon XP-M box last June -- the box has never recovered. I've tried several times to resuscitate it with a different power supply and lower key video cards, but the darned thing periodically blue screens and I can't figure out how to fix it. Used to be rock solid -- major drag!

Modern video cards seem to be a serious current sink. How's ATI doing Vs NVidia these days?
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Old 29th November, 2006, 05:38 AM
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Yippee!

My retail 4600+ arrived today from Newegg! These things seem to be getting harder to find at reasonable prices, maybe AMD is winding them down. I was afraid they might have dumbed down the HSF, but no -- it's that really nice copper heat pipe HS they included with my 4200+.

I also needed a heavier duty power supply for my 3800+ machine. The Antec True480 can't support more than a minimal o/c and I also want to bump up the video card. Best Buy has a sale this week on the Antec Trio 650 that drops the price to $99.95.

I'm thinking the 650 should be an excellent PS for the money and easily cover the needs of that machine. Then the 480 can go to the new 4600+ which would otherwise be stuck with an already maxed out Tagan TG380. (May swap the Tagan in for an Antec SL350, but not sure it would actually be an improvement.)
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Last edited by TrevorS; 29th November, 2006 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 29th November, 2006, 06:26 PM
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Let us know how this turns out....
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Old 9th December, 2006, 12:59 AM
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With the arrival of power adapters today, I've finally been able to move on this! (Bumped two machines to Antec Trio 650 PSUs and they're working fine with the A8V Deluxe boards.)

With a fresh X2 BIOS, I swapped in the 4600+ and am now running Prime95 stability tests. The memory is standard DDR400 (Rosewill I think), but seems to be willing to run 218MHz at 2.6V (220MHz was too much). That's enough for a cpu clock of 2616MHz at 1.25V -- basically the kind of performance I was hoping for.

Further, now I've a strong PSU in the X2 3800+ machine, its performance can push up as well (18A +12V wasn't exactly cutting it for a 2X plus drives, et al.).

PS. Was going to swap in a disused 9600XT as well, but can't get the darned thing to work -- refuses to fire up on a -5V machine as well, hmmm!

PPS. Found the problem with the 9600XT, it just needed a good dusting -- now it's fine!
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Last edited by TrevorS; 9th December, 2006 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 9th December, 2006, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS
PPS. Found the problem with the 9600XT, it just needed a good dusting -- now it's fine!
Well, you know what they say: "Cleanliness is next to doGliness."

Amazing what a good PSU will do for your system, eh? That's my next upgrade. I think I'll go for one of the OCZ's and relegate this crappy one to my roommate's comp.

Bwaaahaha!
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Old 10th December, 2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aztec61
Well, you know what they say: "Cleanliness is next to doGliness."

Amazing what a good PSU will do for your system, eh? That's my next upgrade. I think I'll go for one of the OCZ's and relegate this crappy one to my roommate's comp.

Bwaaahaha!
Yeppers! This is easily the best behavior I've ever had from those two machines. The 2X 3800+ is now clocked at 2450GHz, held back by the PQI Turbo DDR400 at 245 (thanks to the x10 multiplier). My gamer matches that with the same DRAM and a 3200+ Venice (x10 again).

That's actually a pretty healthy speed for that RAM. I got it a couple years ago, but the second batch was crummy, had to wrestle with PQI to get some respectable 250MHz capable replacements. I now realize I was just darned lucky with the first batch. Seems the RAM doesn't usually o/c all that well -- I just read the name and feature bullets and expected it to perform accordingly, silly me . Just glad I at least realized getting a third batch would not be a smart idea.

The new PSU's are just a tad overkill for the jobs, but the price/performance ratio was just too attractive -- should hold me for a LONG time!
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Last edited by TrevorS; 10th December, 2006 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 10th December, 2006, 12:03 PM
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why don't you use a mem divider?
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Old 10th December, 2006, 03:27 PM
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Yeah...divide & conquer that RAM!
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Old 10th December, 2006, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedon
why don't you use a mem divider?
Back in the XP days, if the memory was running below FSB, there was a distinct penalty in memory access efficiency (T-states lost in achieving synchronization). Consequently, I associate running the DDR clock below HTT with the same thing (don't know whether this is true -- if it's a synchronous divider, then I guess it shouldn't be).

In the case of the Venice, it seems to top out near 2.45GHz anyway. I find that cpu to be substantially less overclockable than the Manchester, and simply increasing Vcore actually causes trouble when approaching 1.6V (unlike the Winchester and previous cpus). Mine is not far from that now.

However, the X2 3800+ is almost certainly loafing a little at 2.45GHz. For some reason my 4200+ machine will auto-divide -- not sure what triggers it. That cpu will do 2.7GHz stable, but when it does, the memory speed gets kicked down without my intervention -- this results in a slower speed than I care for given the capability of the DDR.

The BIOS doesn't provide a lot of division options and if the cpu clock isn't high enough, then the memory runs significantly slower than it's capability. In that trade off situation, I'm inclined to think I'm better off with a memory speed boost, than a cpu speed boost.

Still, if there is no inherent efficiency penalty in dividing down the RAM, I should probably at least try the first division step and see where it lands me. As the machine is used as a LAN hub, general work horse, and occasional video renderer, I doubt there's much advantage in further cranking the cpu, so I'm really not that concerned.
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Last edited by TrevorS; 10th December, 2006 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11th December, 2006, 05:05 AM
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Spent some time with the .91*HTT memory divider.

At 263 HTT it gives 239 DDR and a Sandra Memory&Cache bandwidth index of 5890MB/s (had trouble acheiving CPU Prime95 stability much above that HTT).

At 250 HTT and 1:1 DDR, the Sandra index is 5891MB/s.

I read an o/c recommendation that if applying a mem divider and raising the HTT doesn't allow you to get within 5MHz of the max stable RAM clock, then memory bandwith is being thrown away. Don't know how true that is, but I was trying to keep the loss within 10% of the o/c (45 Vs 39), which was close.

However, I found that I could push the DDR clock higher, which blows that 10% pretty badly and seriously reduces CPU stress. Given the Sandra result as well, I'm thinking the divider isn't a good solution in this case.

Thanks for the suggestion !
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Last edited by TrevorS; 11th December, 2006 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 15th December, 2006, 06:32 AM
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Makes sense then in your case.
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