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Old 9th November, 2001, 02:51 AM
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GF2 Whaddya Think?

I am NOT a big gamer, so I have lived quite nicely with my now aging TNT2 PRO board (Asus V-3800, 32MB) for some time... as I am building a new system I thought I might upgrade... (BTW, I will NOT pay more than $125 for a vid card... as a matter of principle)...

I have looked at the GF2 and KyroII offerings GF2 MX (200 & 400) seems to be lacking, KyroII is OK, but has its own issues... so I am looking at the following to live with my 1.2GHz Celey & TUSL2C...

Asus V-7700 32Mb GF2 PRO with DDR ($109.99–retail box)

Any comments or suggestions?
Should I stay with my TNT2 board ??
How about 64Mb? Do I NEED it?

I appreciate your help...
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Last edited by Kris; 10th November, 2001 at 04:25 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 9th November, 2001, 03:44 AM
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Upgrade.

The Geforce 2 Pro card's are below you're $125 mark now.
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Old 10th November, 2001, 04:27 PM
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Nobody has an opinion besides Pinky...
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Old 10th November, 2001, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Nobody has an opinion besides Pinky...
It's possible that they are all in agreement, or have stopped visiting this topic .
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Old 10th November, 2001, 09:00 PM
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So.. I give, then...

Pinky, you think the 32Mb GF2 PRO (DDR) is going to outperform the KyroII w/ 64Mb or the GF2 MX 200 & 400 w/ 64Mb?

Seems that I just can't find a lot of reviews with comparisions like I am asking about... too old probably...

I have always been a "trailing edge" overclocker... LOL... The 1.2 Celley & TUSL2C are the ONLY exception... BTW, I almost ordered a P3-S this a.m.... Almost...
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Old 10th November, 2001, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
So.. I give, then...

Pinky, you think the 32Mb GF2 PRO (DDR) is going to outperform the KyroII w/ 64Mb or the GF2 MX 200 & 400 w/ 64Mb?
If I really had to make the call, this is how I'd break it down:

Radeon 64MB DDR (about $100)

Geforce2 Pro (about $100)

Kyro II (less than $90)

GF2 MX 400 (less than $80)

My personal preference is for Radeons because I do 30 times more web surfing and music stuff that doesn't require awesome 3D, but I'm also a picky PC geek so I need some performance when I get the itch to kill... I mean, game ... so the Radeon offers me the best of both worlds in the mid-level 3D gaming/video market. For an extra few bucks get the VIVO (video in/out) if you think you'll ever use it...

As for Geforce cards, I'd say they game much better than the Radeon for raw processing power built on the card. Again, even in 3D, the picture quality is noticeably poorer, but still not "poor". If you game a lot, don't feel scared of the Radeon, they're only 10fps slower, but if you must have awesome 3DMark scores and top frame rates, get the Geforce 2 Pro or Ultra.

Be sure to get only named brand Nvidia cards, some of the lesser known cards don't overclock worth a crap due to poor memory speeds/chips, etc. If you can get DDR, get DDR. SDRAM isn't too bad but the clock speeds and memory bandwidth does improve with the use of DDR.

Any questions, I'm full of useless information I've been retaining for no reason over the past 7 months .
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Old 10th November, 2001, 09:54 PM
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Similar to you Pinky... I'm not a BIG gamer but when I do get the urge, I want SOME performance...

I was looking at the Radeon's--at least they are all made by ATI--there are A LOT of models... sheesh... VE, LE & etc... I checked out the ATI site and didn't really get a lot of help there either... 7000, 7200, 7500???
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Old 10th November, 2001, 09:56 PM
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check this out: http://www.buyaib.com/apnvidgefgts.html it's not a name brand that i've heard of, but it's dirt cheap.
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Old 11th November, 2001, 04:01 AM
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Actually have some experience with Apollo boards but they are a little "low end"... Thanks though...
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Last edited by Kris; 11th November, 2001 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 11th November, 2001, 04:43 PM
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hey kris.

i'm very happy with my kyro II, but if you have the cash go with a radeon ddr or geforce 2 pro/gts, in that order. the radeon is lovely, and the pro and gts are really, really fast. the kyro II is really quick in some games, but slower that the gts in others.

hope this helps some,
paul
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Old 11th November, 2001, 04:56 PM
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yes, Paul.. thanks... wish i could sort out the Radeon models though...

I can find a Radeon 7000 w/ 32Mb DDR for about $84.. but then I can find VE for $92 & LE around the same... I am just not sure what all these models are.. ??? & the ATI site is little help from what i can find...
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Old 11th November, 2001, 10:06 PM
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out of those three, i think the le would get you the best bang for your buck. afaik, the le is a radeon ddr with hyper z disabled, and that can be enabled again with a registry hack. the ve is crud, so don't touch that. it has fewer rendering pipelines, etc, etc... and the 7000 really doesn't perform as far as i know.

pinky, that sound right?
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Old 11th November, 2001, 10:16 PM
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I have the LE, and with a number of utilities such as Rage3d or RadeonTweaker, both free, you can easily enable Hyper Z and overclock the card a ton. For instance, my Radeon LE, which is clocked at 148Mhz Core and Memory default, can be overclocked to 189Mhz without any artifacts and 195Mhz with minor artifacts. And it really looks sweet in UT. BTW, I solved my UT problems for all concerned parties. The problem was that F@H wasn't giving UT all it's precious resources

Also, I believe the Radeon 32MB DDR is clocked at 162Mhz but uses exactly the same memory. The only non-8500 or 7500 Radeon card that uses 5.5ns memory, as opposed to 6ns, is the Radeon 64MB VIVO Retail, although some OEM have reportedly come with it too. So most Radeon's will overclock to about 190Mhz before they lock or artifact anyway. Also, the Radeon LE is about $55, and the Radeon 32MB DDR is about $70.

The Radeon really is a very good and inexpensive video card at the moment. And it runs UT and RTCW Test 2 with no problems at 1024x768.
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Old 11th November, 2001, 10:39 PM
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So if i'm reading right...

the:

Radeon 7500,64MB,DDR,AGP4X,TV-OUT,DVI-OUT ($125)

should outperform the

Asus V-7700 GF2 PRO w/ 32Mb DDR ($109)

Yes???

BTW, thanks for all the help guys...
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Old 11th November, 2001, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
So if i'm reading right...

the:

Radeon 7500,64MB,DDR,AGP4X,TV-OUT,DVI-OUT ($125)

should outperform the

Asus V-7700 GF2 PRO w/ 32Mb DDR ($109)

Yes???

BTW, thanks for all the help guys...
Yes, that's about right (sorry, haven't been around much the last day or so to help )...

The Radeon you quoted is the 64MB DDR, but has no video in/out, but is essentially the same type of cardI have.

The only rub is overclocking. I happened to get my Radeon more recently, when they started including 5NS memory on their cards, which is why mine clocks as high as 234/234. Depending on what you get, the overclock will vary, but overall performance is in line with the GF2 Pro and has better looking 2D.
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Old 12th November, 2001, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinky


Yes, that's about right (sorry, haven't been around much the last day or so to help )...

The Radeon you quoted is the 64MB DDR, but has no video in/out, but is essentially the same type of cardI have.

The only rub is overclocking. I happened to get my Radeon more recently, when they started including 5NS memory on their cards, which is why mine clocks as high as 234/234. Depending on what you get, the overclock will vary, but overall performance is in line with the GF2 Pro and has better looking 2D.
Yeah, that's about right for the 5ns memory. Sounds like it's a good card. For $125, that's going to really be a contender to the Ti200 I was thinking about buying. What do you all think, price IS an issue. How much more is the Ti200 buying me? BTW, the 7500 does include the new core and hence DX 8.1 crap right?
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Old 12th November, 2001, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinky


Yes, that's about right (sorry, haven't been around much the last day or so to help )...

The Radeon you quoted is the 64MB DDR, but has no video in/out, but is essentially the same type of cardI have.

The only rub is overclocking. I happened to get my Radeon more recently, when they started including 5NS memory on their cards, which is why mine clocks as high as 234/234. Depending on what you get, the overclock will vary, but overall performance is in line with the GF2 Pro and has better looking 2D.
Thanks Pinky & all!!!

2D IS an issue for me.. in fact my 8Mb Matrox (PCI) had better 2D graphics rendering than my TNT2...

Looks like I'll be ordering a Radeon this week... gotta setup my new system over the holiday Hope I can get a decent overclock out of her..
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Old 12th November, 2001, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superman53142
BTW, the 7500 does include the new core and hence DX 8.1 crap right?
Yes, the 7500 is the "MX" line for the Radeon 8500 card.
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Old 12th November, 2001, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Looks like I'll be ordering a Radeon this week... gotta setup my new system over the holiday Hope I can get a decent overclock out of her..
Oh, I don't believe you'll have any qualms about how far a Radeon will overclock. They are seriously underclocked. Even with the default plastic, half-ass (pardon my french ) heatsink I was able to get perfectly stable at 189Mhz Core and Memory, as I stated earlier. And it's so simple. www.rage3d.com makes a utility that puts little icon things in your display properties, similar to the coolbits hack. Here's a pic:

http://www.daocplace.com/~superman/aoastuff/rage3d1.jpg

And Rage3d also allows you to pick numerous "profiles" that are designed to speed up different games or applications. This is all done from a little taskbar icon, which is convientent:

http://www.daocplace.com/~superman/a...f/ragetsk1.jpg

The program that I use to automatically make my Radeon 189Mhz at boot is called RadeonTweaker. It's, in my opinion, a more configurable and comprehensive program that Rage3d, but less convienent. Here's a pic of the Overclocking tab of that program:

http://www.daocplace.com/~superman/a.../radeontw1.jpg

Hope this helps.
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Old 13th November, 2001, 03:35 AM
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