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Old 30th March, 2004, 07:53 AM
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MSI GeForce 5900XT-VTD

I don't know if anyone owns one of these but there is a new driver for it at the MSI site (use liveupdate). For the same price as a GeForce 5700 Ultra and a Radeon 9600XT it kicks the pants off of them...hands down...but I would buiy some ram cooling chips or some aftermarket cooling.. personally i bought OCZ copper ram heatsinks and used Arctic silver epoxy to put them on..either that or go with the Gigabyte as it has cooling on the chips.....but I think the MSI just Rocks to well to consider another brand (that and NewEgg tells me they NEVER have returns on them...and yes, when you buy enough from someone they tend to tell you great buys!!!!)
Tim
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Old 2nd April, 2004, 04:04 PM
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wanna send me your left over epoxy(i cannot find any here and don't hace a credit card to order online).!
j/k
i have 3 cpu fans(2 out case in cpu), a blue orb, and 2 chipset fans....and still with the case off temp lowers....
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Old 2nd April, 2004, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
i have 3 cpu fans(2 out case in cpu), a blue orb, and 2 chipset fans....and still with the case off temp lowers....
You have to be careful with your ventilation layout, especially if you are running negative pressure in the case. It sounds like you may actually have a problem where the air coming into the case is traveling straight to the exhaust without going over any components in between....just a thought
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Old 8th April, 2004, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo
You have to be careful with your ventilation layout, especially if you are running negative pressure in the case. It sounds like you may actually have a problem where the air coming into the case is traveling straight to the exhaust without going over any components in between....just a thought
I have 11 fans in my case. Northbridge, Southbridge, CPU, 2 on the Antec Truepower PS, video card, and 5 on the case. I aint got no heat problems no more, and with the microcool and ocz heatsinks this thing should be running cool as a cucumber even this summer.
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Old 9th April, 2004, 01:34 AM
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Thank you for the pointer, JMa2969! Outta stock, natch.
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Old 9th April, 2004, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloasters
Thank you for the pointer, JMa2969! Outta stock, natch.
Yeah, but just give it a little. They re-stock frequently (and probably have a date that they expect them to be in, if I remember right :-)
Tim
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Old 16th April, 2004, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloasters
Thank you for the pointer, JMa2969! Outta stock, natch.
I would watch this card. After seeing that they had switched the memory from the PC-Stats reviewed card, I took off the fan/heatsink, and guess what I found. Not the adverstised FX 5900 chip but the underclocked FX5900XT chip. MSI is into some dirty dealings with their reviewers now. It is still a fast card and will clock around 480-495 Core with a max 797 Memory, but not quite the card as advertised. Just wanted all to know.
Tim
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Old 16th April, 2004, 09:39 AM
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leadtek is good i used them b4 i turned to Ati
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Old 16th April, 2004, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottman
leadtek is good i used them b4 i turned to Ati
Yeah, but for price/performance ratio, had I known what I know now I would have gone Gigabyte. I have friends with Leadtek cards and they cannot get in touch with customer support no matter what avenue they tried. They eventually put it up as a loss.
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Old 16th April, 2004, 09:59 AM
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leadtek is good i used them b4 i turned to Ati
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Old 16th April, 2004, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa2969
I would watch this card. After seeing that they had switched the memory from the PC-Stats reviewed card, I took off the fan/heatsink, and guess what I found. Not the adverstised FX 5900 chip but the underclocked FX5900XT chip. MSI is into some dirty dealings with their reviewers now. It is still a fast card and will clock around 480-495 Core with a max 797 Memory, but not quite the card as advertised. Just wanted all to know.
Tim

lol have we not had this discussion.. and it seems as though i was right....you didn't happen to write down the other numbers on the chip did you?.....i put an iceberq on my 9600 (rv351) and now get 450 gpu rock solid...however i can't seems to push the memory past 229.5
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Old 16th April, 2004, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
lol have we not had this discussion.. and it seems as though i was right....you didn't happen to write down the other numbers on the chip did you?.....i put an iceberq on my 9600 (rv351) and now get 450 gpu rock solid...however i can't seems to push the memory past 229.5
No, there really aren't that many on the chip. Basically the GeForce logo and FX5900 on top left and XT on toop right. However, I get a core speed of 489 with a memory speed of 797 without any degeneration of image. Past that you start to get artifacts in the picture. But that is rock solid all day long. For shorter durations I have hit 500 core and 805 memory. All in all, no matter what you cool this chip with, it isn't the heat that tops it out, it is the chip design. However, I still believe (actually I know) that Gainward has a card with the FX 5900 chip. My card has Hynix memory, but there are two versions and some come with Samsung. The limiting factor is not a different chip design, I have since found out, but rather a different reference PCB design that limits the overall speed of the chip. So, you were right and you were wrong, I am still pissed at MSI for this marketing ploy and they pulled it on two review sites (I believe I mentioned PC-Stats, also digit-life both had the card switch pulled on them (digit-life actually pulled off the heatsink to reveal the FX5900 in the article, with pics to prove it). But the Gainward card is definately FX5900, non XT. Any in this class running a base core of 400Mghz is a 5900, any with a base core of 390 is a 5900XT. All, even this one as you can tell from the numbers (O'C'd, they are above the base for the 5900 Ultra and just below on memory of the 5950). And at stock speed or overclocked still kick the pants off the ATI 9600XT and the GeForce 5700 Ultra (I paid $185.00 for mine, got three games, Mass utilities and DVD software and TV tuner, plus have video in and video out to HDTV, TV or plasme and lcd monitors, as well as the standard adapter to a second CRT, did I mention the nice 7 game demo and S-Video cords that came with it too?).
I know, I sound like a smart**s. I didn't like the game played on me but ultimately got my monies worth, but had I known I probably would have bought the Gigabyte (and yes, to the guy that liked leadtek, if it weren't for the problems my friend had, I would have considered that one too, but the AOpen and Chaintek do not look worth the money with these choices). BTW, the Gainward also has the FX5900 non XT and video in but only basic drivers and software, no frills, even in the cable dept., so if you want any games or all the connectivity look to another one, but the Gainward is guaranteed to hit the speeds mine does (with an overclocking utility they provide) and for $190.00 on NewEgg it doesn't look bad. Just make sure you get the Gainward Fx5900XT Gold, as the regular is $5.00 cheaper and clocked significantly lower. For the money, it overclocks no better than mine as it comes overclocked by the company, even they admit it. I just hate MSI is into shady dealings and card switching with reviewers, very disapointing.
Also, the rthdribl_1_2 program definately did the trick to get the heatsink off. I put some Arctic Silver on, but even clocked high, it is still a pretty cool (temp.) card.
Just thought I would advise all (there really aren't any markings other than what i stated as MSI put the cap on the chip, and I am NOT taking that off). Furthermore, there is NO difference between the 5900XT and the 5900SE, just different companies are giving the same chip different suffixes, as NVidia left that to the companies.
Later and make wise choices that are right for you. I am OK with the clock speeds and frame rates as they beat comparably priced 5700 Ultra's and 9600XT's and even come in the range of 9800XT's and 5950's on some testing.
Tim
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Old 17th April, 2004, 05:56 AM
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meh.


i agree with marketing problems...but those problems lead us to being able to overclock now doesn't it?kinda?lol
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Old 17th April, 2004, 10:04 PM
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I was always under the impression that the NVidia XT range only had half the pipelines of the FX range.
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Old 18th April, 2004, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitch
I was always under the impression that the NVidia XT range only had half the pipelines of the FX range.
I do believe that is where the reference PCB design comes in. I still (as far as I know) believe that the chips are essentially the same if not exactly, kinda like an Athlon that cannot handle the Cache requirements being turned into a Duron.
Tim
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Old 18th April, 2004, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa2969
I do believe that is where the reference PCB design comes in. I still (as far as I know) believe that the chips are essentially the same if not exactly, kinda like an Athlon that cannot handle the Cache requirements being turned into a Duron.
Tim
....the chips sold on the others are ones that would not work @ the required voltage with all pipelines enabled or produced artifacts on one or more pipelines(part of the quality testing).
this is what ati did with the 9500/9700,9700/9800 and is fair practice as long as they sell the chips with the proper"features" but one of the things that most people don't realize is that the "SE" ati and the second nvidia model... if it is a pipeline that is the problem it may be ANY ONE of the pipes and this is what has lead to the slower "SE" cards.. without 4 pipelines in a proper grouping the can "simulate" 4 with 2x2 (2 first bank 2 second) which lead to slightly slower speed @ the gpu and a notcible difference to the pcb design.
all old 9600's for the most part where set @ 325 and 200 mhz for the memory, but anyone who has bought a newer one will notice that thier clock speeds has slowed to 324 and 189, which has even been included in the reference bios from ati directly. These cards for the most part are higher grade chips that failed testing and have been "binned" for lower cards...which leads to higher overclockablility and bios upgrades that before where never documented. Athough this has been widespeard knowledge about amd chips and overclockers looking for specific steppings, noone has ever thought to apply this to video cards which are essentially the technology, but different. Nvidia releases a new slow card and people wonder why...because of silicon rejects of course! How else can you make use of parts that do not work right.....make them work not right!
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Old 18th April, 2004, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
....the chips sold on the others are ones that would not work @ the required voltage with all pipelines enabled or produced artifacts on one or more pipelines(part of the quality testing).
this is what ati did with the 9500/9700,9700/9800 and is fair practice as long as they sell the chips with the proper"features" but one of the things that most people don't realize is that the "SE" ati and the second nvidia model... if it is a pipeline that is the problem it may be ANY ONE of the pipes and this is what has lead to the slower "SE" cards.. without 4 pipelines in a proper grouping the can "simulate" 4 with 2x2 (2 first bank 2 second) which lead to slightly slower speed @ the gpu and a notcible difference to the pcb design.
all old 9600's for the most part where set @ 325 and 200 mhz for the memory, but anyone who has bought a newer one will notice that thier clock speeds has slowed to 324 and 189, which has even been included in the reference bios from ati directly. These cards for the most part are higher grade chips that failed testing and have been "binned" for lower cards...which leads to higher overclockablility and bios upgrades that before where never documented. Athough this has been widespeard knowledge about amd chips and overclockers looking for specific steppings, noone has ever thought to apply this to video cards which are essentially the technology, but different. Nvidia releases a new slow card and people wonder why...because of silicon rejects of course! How else can you make use of parts that do not work right.....make them work not right!

Essentaillt the Same? The New NForce 6800 Has 222 million transistors and the Intel Prescott core runs 125 million with AMD's 64 Processor bringing up the reae with 105 Million transistors. I would say that in overall architecture GPU's are probably more complex than CPU's, they just don't run as fast (amd while I am not going to spout facts like above, I believe the slower clock speeds of the GPU's with higher transistor count and same 0.13 Micron Fabrication processs is due to the higher pipeline count from the GPU's, but that is mere deduction and not fact, so don't quote me, although I am sure our friend above will pounce if I am wrong......LOL).
Later, Tim
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Old 18th April, 2004, 07:50 PM
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just gotta add my 2 cents again.. i was referring to the same manufacturing technology, not the processor technology...i am a firm believer that had all our cpu's been designed like gpu's we would have slightly slower pc's..although the gpu has more transistors, and therefore can make more calculations, bus speed is king. we get 333 by 166x2...but most video cards(if not all) are set @ the 66mhz bus speed...imagine what performance we would have if our gpu's were 166mhz!

btw jma..i was not jumping on ya, but i thought i woyuld pass on the knowledge..nowhere did i say that YOU were wrong. From the info you had you were right.
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Old 18th April, 2004, 08:50 PM
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Errr.............the 66 mhz is only the bus interface to the rest of the computer. Internally, most of the cards run MUCH faster than that.
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Old 18th April, 2004, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo
Errr.............the 66 mhz is only the bus interface to the rest of the computer. Internally, most of the cards run MUCH faster than that.
Upping the bus speed on AGP produces some weird results.
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