Low end Projectors?

[BobRoss]

Ok here is situation. I set up a room to be a theater room. It has a HTPC and 7.1 sound set up. Neither are knock you socks off or anything. But they are better than just watching movies on my laptop. I want to get a projector for this setup. I will mostly be using it to watch movies from DVDs or that Sage TV has recorded for me. This means that the resolution does not need to be all that high because the sources of video I am using are not very good in the first place. I will not kid you and say that I don’t ever intend to play any games on it because I will, but that is not it’s intended purpose and I don’t mind it the game quality is not all that great. Here is the catch that I am running into with it. I have actually been trying to make this decision for several months now as to what projector I will buy. I don’t have time to make one myself though I have thought about it I just don’t have time. I have read, on the consumer reports website, that they recommend the 2000 dollar and up HD projectors and specifically the 2400 dollar ones. That is simply too much for me right now. So here is the dilemma, do I get a 1200 dollar one or do I just suffer and continue to watch movies on my 21” computer monitor? If I do get a projector in the 1200 dollar range which ones are ok? It seems like I want to stay away from LCD ones and favor the DLP types from what I have read. I assume also that I want to get the 124x768 over the 800x600 ones. But that could be wrong too I guess? Does anyone have any exp in this area of low end projectors for watching movies?

[Favu]

I don't personally have any experience, but I find the subject very interesting. I am sure that someone with more info will drop by to enlighten us!

[Aedan]

Widescreen usage means a different aspect ratio - many cheap projectors can only handle widescreen by adding borders to the top and bottom. That's fine if you only occasionally use widescreen ratios, but if you're using widescreen ratios all the time, it might be better to pick up a projector that can handle widescreen natively.

You also then have the problem of ensuring your graphics card can produce widescreen output, rather than the standard output!

[Chernobyl]

If no one can help, I suggest reading up on current XGA projectors (and maybe 720p), there are a lot coming out all the time so its hard to keep up with.
Newer LCD projectors are very good and worth looking at.

Try to get a contrast ratio of at least 400:1 and a brightness of 1400 lumens or higher if you want a screen 3 metres or over in size.
(Thats equivalent to business lumens quoted below)
You can use lower power projectors if you get a more reflective screen.

I found recently that power ratings for Business models and Home Theatre projectors can be measured differently.
You will find that some home theatre projectors have an uncharacteristcally lower rated output in Lumens. This could be because the brightness is measured when playing back a test video rather than the maximum brightness.
Typical business projected images look way brighter than a movie so remember this when comparing projectors.
It may not be possible to find which rating system they have used for a particular projector.

Business projectors can be very suitable but try and find peoples experience of using the particular model in a home cinema in case there are image issues.

Find out the cost of bulbs and how easy they are to get.
You dont want to put your projector in the cupboard because its too costly or difficult to run!

On the Widescreen vs 4:3 issue, there are a few factors to consider.
Modern 4:3 projectors will display all 4:3 and Widescreen content in their full size with black upper/lower borders on Widescreen material.
A widescreen projector will display 4:3 content in a smaller window (unless you stretch it which doesnt look good).
If you do get a 4:3 projector, try and get a high contrast ratio so that blacks look very black. This will make the borders on widescreen content disappear instead of being vaguely noticable.

For reference, my projector has a contrast ratio of 450:1 and a light output power around 700 to 800 Lumens. I am using a high gain screen to make up for the lack of brightness to get almost a 3 metre screen.
A 450:1 contrast ratio looks absolutely brilliant with this setup.

No matter whether you get a powerful or low power projector, if you want to resolve dark detail in games or movies, you will need to turn the lights down/off. The only substitute is getting a very powerful projector with a very high contrast ratio (2000:1 +). Even then it is likely to not be as good as turning the lights off.
Removing 1/2 the ambient light is equivalent to doubling the contrast ratio and makes darker detail much easier to see.

[BobRoss]

Well to give more background on my setup I have a dedicated room for this. I have totally sealed off any light coming in from the window and I have hung dark red velvet curtains all the way around the entire room from floor to ceiling to dampen any echoes. This actually helped out even more than I thought it would. To go in there with the lights off you really feel like you are in a void. So dark enough is not a problem.
I am leaning towards a 720p 16:9 (widescreen) resolution model. I am fine with suffering a little when I need to run the 4:3 ratio in exchange for not running off the screen for movies. I just read a review that indicates that the 1080p resolution is really only noticeable on the blueray and hddvd sources, neither of which I have. My DVD collection is pretty extensive at this point so I will mainly be well under the 720p resolution.

[BobRoss]

I ordered the Optoma HD70 Projector this morning. It should be here thurs so hopefully that will be enough time to get it set
up and build the frame for the screen so I can test it out this weekend. I will let you know how it works out.

Specs:
Resolution: 702p WXGA-H (1280 x 720) 16:9 aspect ratio (widescreen)
Display Type: DLP™; Single 0.62" DarkChip2™ DLP
Brightness: 1000 lumens
Weight: 5.6 lbs.
Contrast: 4000:1
28DdB

[Chernobyl]

That looks to be quite a sweet projector.
The only downside is a 2000hr lamp life. This will give you going on 2/3 of a years use at 8hrs a day.

With 1000 lumens you should be ok to get a 3metre screen on a matt white painted wall in your environment.
If you need deeper colours/contrast and more brightness, ScreenGoo is a special paint and undercoat that will give you a screen comparable to some good high end screens.
It isnt as cheap as you might like but has glowing reports all over the web.

There are numerous discussions online about which matt white paints perform better as a screen if you feel the need to know.

handy tip:
Placing a black border around the edge of the screen fools the brain into thinking the screen is brighter
It also helps define the screen edges better, squaring the picture up.

[BobRoss]

Thanks for the guidance Chernobyl.
I can't wait to finally live the dream!

[Chernobyl]

hehe
its a wicked dream

[BobRoss]

So FedEx says it will be here at 4:30!! Thats only 4 hours away!

[Samuknow]

This sounds awsome...I hope you enjoy you purchase....

[BobRoss]

Sweet! It's here!!
Thanks Sam!
I will report back tomorrow and tell how it is.

[Chernobyl]

nice one

[BobRoss]

Here is my report so far. I got the projector mounted where I want it and started taking measurements for the screen. I am going to start building the frame for the screen fabric tonight. It will be 4’8” X 8’1”. Right now I have mostly only seen it project onto dark red velvet (which had negative brightness gain) but we did hold the screen up for a bit to check the brightness and it seems good. This is all so very exciting! I expect to be watching The Godfather on it tomorrow night!!

Thanks for the tips everyone and in particular Chernobyl’s extensive projector thread full of great research.

[Samuknow]

Keep us posted Bob....

[Chernobyl]

Originally Posted by BobRoss

Thanks for the tips everyone and in particular Chernobyl’s extensive projector thread full of great research.

you're welcome.
I'll check back to see how you get on

[BobRoss]

This is the report:

First I want to put your minds at ease and let you know that I am in fact now living the dream.
I do have a 110” diagonal picture and it looks great! I mounted the projector last week and took the measurements. Then Friday night I got some 1x3 poplar boards and set about building a “scenic flat” at the instruction of a set construction friend of mine. I wrapped the fabric around the edges of the frame and stapled it to the back. I had my girlfriend help me pull it tight and keep it that way for the stapling. It actually turned out better that I thought it would. Then I mounted it to the wall where you see it now. But in the sense that things like that happen on television. There are all these TV shows about how to build hot rods and off road trucks where they buys parts and start to install them and then cut to tightening the last bolt. But they skipped the middle part where it tool a week to make it fit right and there were actually 6 people helping and a lot of foul language. So in reality it took me ALL of Saturday to mount the frame straight and secure and then I had to mount the speakers on Sunday.
But it was all more than worth it as now I have my own personal movie theater! I have a DVD on order that is supposed to help to calibrate the picture and the sound. I think I will do the picture calibration by eye but I have a sound pressure meter to set the speaker levels. So after work tonight will be the first movie screened on it. The Godfather obviously since it is the best movie ever made.

Here are a few shots of the screen. The image gets totally blown out from the camera flash so I tried to bring some of the color back in photoshop but whatever I will just put a sign in there that says no flash photography during presentations.






The projector is actually inside the closet behind the curtains so I got a picture frame and cut a hole in the curtain and stapled the edges of the hole to the frame.



I added a frame to the top of the door so that when the door is closed the curtain wall moves closed also. It is a nice effect you really get a sense of being in a theater. I plan to do the same thing I did with the projector for the vent above the door.


Well that's as far as I am for now. I need to still mount the rear speakers, do the vent above the door and mount some wall sconces but the hard stuff is done.

[Samuknow]

That is sweet...

So the party is at your house right?

I picked up a JVC 52" LCOS tv a couple of weeks ago. Let me know if that DVD is worth it. I was looking into getting one to calibrate my set...

I'm a little envious there Bob....

[BobRoss]

Yep, party's at my house!

Wow! LCOS that is nice stuff!
I'll keep you posted on the setup disk. My dad is interested in using it on his Plasma and his rear projection DLP TVs also. It's supposed to be pretty good.

[Chernobyl]

Awesome, I thought my setup was looking good, yours is sweet.
Those curtains really add to the effect.