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-   -   What is the Next Big thing? (http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=616)

Daniel ~ 14th October, 2001 11:21 PM

What is the Next Big thing?
 
What are we waiting for and why? Will the Mainboards/CPUs still lag behind the Video cards when it comes to bottle necks?

Where will the sweet spot be found and on what Video card(s). When will games be available to use the new horse power and features?

Phil 15th October, 2001 02:04 AM

Hmm we've had hardware accelerated graphics, sound, even mice are now using the usb port because it gives a higher refesh rate or something making movement smoother, how about hardware accelerated keyboards, that can cope with the entire oxford english dictionairy being typed into it a second, just for those people that want to say 'even my keyboard is faster than yours'.

I think nvidia is gonna hit a wall soon, people won't continue to want the latest thing for ever, or be able to afford it the way they put the price up with each new card, how long till we're taking out graphics card loans I wonder, don't forget to ask about depreciation when buying one too :)

dimmreaper 15th October, 2001 03:11 AM

The next big thing will be LCD monitors, prices will drop, increasing demand, increasing market size, prompting more competition to enter that market segment, causing prices to drop, further increasing demand, further increasing market size, prompting even more competition . . . . . . .


Why LCDs? They require less space, good if you rent office space in manhattan or other densely packed metropolises. They use less electricity, with a "small" workgroup of a few hundred machines it costs a whole lot of green to keep those CRT monitors lit. They look cool. They offer superior graphic quality. They are easier on the eyes. The list goes on and on. Who amongst us would not own one if they could afford one? Personally I like the 20" wide aspect ratio LCDs(1:2 instead of 3:4).

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if 5-10 years from now a new motherboard standard surfaced, a standard specifically intended for integrating motherboards in to LCD monitors. They might even come up with a new peripheral card slot in which the card is inserted on a 45 degree angle rather than the traditional 90 degree card slots.

I also think the legacy ports on PC motherboards will be phased out. Who even uses Parallel and Serial ports any more? Not many. A few people are still using the Game/Midi port, but it will be going soon too I think. I wouldn't be too surprised if they phased out PS2 sooner or later too.

Superman 15th October, 2001 12:22 PM

I use parallel :(. My old printer doesn't have a USB connector.

Kaitain 15th October, 2001 12:38 PM

Why stop at LCD?

Why not go the whole hog and have a wall-sized gas-plasma setup? Prices of those are falling pretty quickly as well (just looking at the one on the other side of the office - 60", schweet!)

Alternatively, if New Scientist is to be believed, then the sci-fi thing of having lasers project an image directly onto the retina is already being toyed with. True VR anybody?

Spode 15th October, 2001 12:59 PM

projectors are getting pretty cheap. I'm getting mine on the 20th.

And there are new CRT displays that are supposedly better than LCD and just as thin coming soon.

Aedan 15th October, 2001 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dimmreaper
They look cool. They offer superior graphic quality. They are easier on the eyes. The list goes on and on.
They have inferior colour reproduction, limited viewing angles and poorer contrast, not to mention colour shifts with age of the backlight, on top of the fact they're designed to operate at only one resolution.

I suspect that CRTs will reinvent themselves in flatscreen - There's already a number of designs on the flatscreen CRT with the same thickness as an LCD. Philips have a design that offers thinscreen CRT, using an indirect electron emitter. Someone else has a design that uses semiconductor points acting as electron emitters. Neither design needs the long distances to deflect the beam over. These are just two examples I know of - I'm sure there's more out there.


Quote:

I also think the legacy ports on PC motherboards will be phased out. Who even uses Parallel and Serial ports any more? Not many. A few people are still using the Game/Midi port, but it will be going soon too I think. I wouldn't be too surprised if they phased out PS2 sooner or later too.
I still use parallel/serial ports. Parallel, because I find my printer works a lot better on it, and serial because it'll go long distances with little/no degredation.

The big problem with USB is the bandwidth stealing effect. Certainly with USB1 this is a problem if you have a USB DSL/Cable modem, USB speakers and USB keyboard/mouse. You may find that in times of limited bandwidth, the low bandwidth devices don't get serviced so often, so your keyboard/mouse stop responding as quickly...! USB1 also requires the CPU to poll all the devices on the bus to see if it requires servicing. At least with PS/2 the CPU gets interrupted when they keyboard/mouse is sending data.

No, I'm not against USB, but I do think it's a protocol that is designed to be as cheap as possible. It shows. (: OTOH, it's pretty easy to interface to USB when you're trying to build your own circuitry.

AidanII

Aedan 15th October, 2001 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaitain
Alternatively, if New Scientist is to be believed, then the sci-fi thing of having lasers project an image directly onto the retina is already being toyed with. True VR anybody?
Why stop at VR? Why not use that same laser to improve your eyesight beyond the conventional? Now that'd be good. (;


AidanII

Pinky 15th October, 2001 04:01 PM

Re: What is the Next Big thing?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Daniel ~
What are .... and features?
Wow! Daniel ~ starting a technology thread :).

Rule 10. You must respond to Daniel's technology questions.

mrpcman 15th October, 2001 06:18 PM

no more mouse...computer HOOKED UP TO THE BRAIN!!!!!! ;)

dimmreaper 15th October, 2001 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AidanII

They have inferior colour reproduction, limited viewing angles and poorer contrast, not to mention colour shifts with age of the backlight, on top of the fact they're designed to operate at only one resolution.

I suspect that CRTs will reinvent themselves in flatscreen - There's already a number of designs on the flatscreen CRT with the same thickness as an LCD. Philips have a design that offers thinscreen CRT, using an indirect electron emitter. Someone else has a design that uses semiconductor points acting as electron emitters. Neither design needs the long distances to deflect the beam over. These are just two examples I know of - I'm sure there's more out there.

True LCDs aren't as good as they will be. But I still would take a high-res LCD over CRT any day of the week. There getting much better with every generation. The flat CRTs look nice too, but I havn't actually seen one myself, so I can't comment on there image quality.

Quote:

Originally posted by AidanII

I still use parallel/serial ports. Parallel, because I find my printer works a lot better on it, and serial because it'll go long distances with little/no degredation.

The big problem with USB is the bandwidth stealing effect. Certainly with USB1 this is a problem if you have a USB DSL/Cable modem, USB speakers and USB keyboard/mouse. You may find that in times of limited bandwidth, the low bandwidth devices don't get serviced so often, so your keyboard/mouse stop responding as quickly...! USB1 also requires the CPU to poll all the devices on the bus to see if it requires servicing. At least with PS/2 the CPU gets interrupted when they keyboard/mouse is sending data.

No, I'm not against USB, but I do think it's a protocol that is designed to be as cheap as possible. It shows. (: OTOH, it's pretty easy to interface to USB when you're trying to build your own circuitry.

I wasn't making a statement for or against USB. I was just saying that something better will replace the current(very old) standards. I mean my 286 had parallel and serial ports, they just need to be phased out. Phasing out the old will put a few people in a rough spot, but it will open the doors to future standards. If push comes to shuve those using these old standards could always buy a $10-15 add-on card with the parallel and serial ports.

Samuknow 15th October, 2001 07:14 PM

I am still thinking that the change needs to come from the mobo makers. Blazing fast vid cards and slow bus speeds. But then the Vid card makers need to up the supported bus speed on the card. If you look to see what the slowest part of a computer is I would have to say this is it. How often (b4 VIAs 1/2 AGP) did we hit the bus speed limit of a vid card. Vid cards are fast. Faster than the computer there on. Need to get the data there faster. I see this for a short term answer to performance.

Spode 15th October, 2001 08:01 PM

I think the major limitation at the momment is harddrives (still).

Lets see what happens with the new ATA standard!

Daniel ~ 15th October, 2001 08:18 PM

Re: Re: What is the Next Big thing?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Pinky


Wow! Daniel ~ starting a technology thread :).

Rule 10. You must respond to Daniel's technology questions.

Only if you want me to continue to function....as opposed to falling into a crippling sulk from which I may not emerge for days....even weeks.

Hey! I'm still getting over my "Are we your home page?" post in which far to many were truthful rather than, shall we say, diplomatic LOL

mrpcman 15th October, 2001 10:44 PM

Re: Re: Re: What is the Next Big thing?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Daniel ~
Only if you want me to continue to function....as opposed to falling into a crippling sulk from which I may not emerge for days....even weeks.

Hey! I'm still getting over my "Are we your home page?" post in which far to many were truthful rather than, shall we say, diplomatic LOL

wouldn't you rather have honesty? :D

Daniel ~ 15th October, 2001 10:45 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Next Big thing?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mrpcman


wouldn't you rather have honesty? :D

OH HELL NO! LOL

Kaitain 16th October, 2001 10:34 AM

Quote:

but I havn't actually seen one myself, so I can't comment on there image quality.
There are a couple at work here. Very smart-looking and leave a lot of desk-space free. Image quality is a bit washed-out and there's a sort of diagonal ripple thing going on as the graphics card's tick doesn't quite match what the screen can manage. It's still vastly better than the dual-scan lcd screen I had on a laptop about 6 years ago.

Aedan 16th October, 2001 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaitain

There are a couple at work here. Very smart-looking and leave a lot of desk-space free. Image quality is a bit washed-out and there's a sort of diagonal ripple thing going on as the graphics card's tick doesn't quite match what the screen can manage.

Yeah, the pixel shimmering is one thing I really hate about LCD monitors using an analog input. I don't know if it's clock jitter from the LCD or clock jitter from the Graphics card or both, but it's really annoying. Using a digital interface instead corrects this problem! Alas, you then have to have a gfx card that has digital out as well.

I'd love to have the deskspace, but I don't think it's worth the restrictions of an LCD monitor... (;

AidanII

irsquirt 16th October, 2001 02:32 PM

And of course, you need an LCD monitor with a digital input. I'm looking around for one right now & I can't believe the number of LCD displays that come with no form of digital input!

Actually, there are a fair number of high-end cards without digital ports as well (like about 2/3 of the GeForce 3 cards out right now)!

cloasters 16th October, 2001 10:59 PM

An entirely new design that makes sense is a good idea. PC's simply don't make sense. They are MUCH too hard to understand. People shouldn't need the equivalent of an AS degree to run a Windows PC. And another AS to build them your self. And a BS to be a good troubleshooter.

This basic design problem DOES make them interesting, and also keeps a LOT of folks employed. I dunno, hardware that's legacy compliant(to a degree) just screws everything up. A five year old should be able to operate a PC with no instruction.

As I'm not an EE, I get to bow out of the, "OK. Just HOW do we design this brand new PC, genius?" question. Whew!

SJAXKINGPIN 6th November, 2001 04:39 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AidanII


Yeah, the pixel shimmering is one thing I really hate about LCD monitors using an analog input. I don't know if it's clock jitter from the LCD or clock jitter from the Graphics card or both, but it's really annoying. Using a digital interface instead corrects this problem! Alas, you then have to have a gfx card that has digital out as well.

I'd love to have the deskspace, but I don't think it's worth the restrictions of an LCD monitor... (;

AidanII
[/QUOTE

I read something in Sci. AM. or something like that a long time ago about a product called ThinCRT. It was supposed to offer a flat wide view angle like CRT's, but not be stuck w/ the color sat. issues, native res, etc. Has anybody heard anything about this tech recently.

SJAXKINGPIN 6th November, 2001 04:41 AM

OK, I got myself interested in doing some research. I guess it's still alive and they now say it should hit desktops in 18-24 months. (that reminds me of Duke Nukem Forever)

Pretty cool, check out the press-type page:
http://www.cuttingtheedge.com/qtakes...T/thinCRT.shtm

This is my bet for the NEXT big thang!

Kris 9th November, 2001 08:22 PM

IMHO, the downside to CRTs has always been the radiation... ever read the recommended viewing distance in a CRT monitor's manual?? I, like many of my friends sit way to close and huddled over my 19 & 21"monitor...

LCD doesn't share that same problem & health risk... but it is a developing technology... in the mid-80s I owned what I believe was the first commercially available laptop model--NEC Multispeed (4, 8 or 16MHz.. LOL)... Let me tell you, in 16 years LCDs have changed a bunch from that small, monochrome, "front-lit," worhtless piece of screen I had... & I believe they will do nothing but improve as price continues to comes down and performance increases...

Thin CRT may give LCD the competition it needs to rise to the next level--then I will forego my "radiation-blasters" and hopefully make it out without cancer, retinal burn or other permanent CRT damage... ;)

286 Rocks 24th November, 2001 10:32 PM

Quote:

no more mouse...computer HOOKED UP TO THE BRAIN!!!!!!


I would have one mighty slow mouse:D

Phil 25th November, 2001 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cloasters
An entirely new design that makes sense is a good idea. PC's simply don't make sense. They are MUCH too hard to understand. People shouldn't need the equivalent of an AS degree to run a Windows PC. And another AS to build them your self. And a BS to be a good troubleshooter.

This basic design problem DOES make them interesting, and also keeps a LOT of folks employed. I dunno, hardware that's legacy compliant(to a degree) just screws everything up. A five year old should be able to operate a PC with no instruction.

As I'm not an EE, I get to bow out of the, "OK. Just HOW do we design this brand new PC, genius?" question. Whew!

We are doing so at the moment, such a revolutionary change doesn't just happen, the way pc's are marketed and designed means that they will always have some form of legacy devices, and software is getting easier to use, but the easier to use it is the more complex it is and so to truly understand it you still need to spend time at it.
As for a 5 year old should be able to operate a pc without instruction, well what does a 5 year old really need to do on a pc?
use a paint package, well you can stick an icon on the desktop that they can just click to open that for them, play educational games? well just putting the cd in the pc auto runs them and then they have a simple interface that the child can use.
My 6 year old neice uses my pc fine, she knows the power button turns it on, and she knows to click her name on the user log ing screen, and then any programs she uses are single click icons on the desktop and she knows how to put her game cd's in, that sounds very straight forward to me.
You don't need to be a genius to understand pc's, you just have to believe that you don't need to be, sitting there thinking they are really complex and that you don't understand them will keep it that way, thats how my parents are and they haven't learned anything other than installing programs and running them. You need to be pro-active in learning how they work and you soon discover how simple the really are.

CNUCompGuy 7th December, 2001 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaitain
Why stop at LCD?

Why not go the whole hog and have a wall-sized gas-plasma setup? Prices of those are falling pretty quickly as well (just looking at the one on the other side of the office - 60", schweet!)

Now that's what I'm talkin bout....I would love to have the 60" plasma screen as my computer screen....we have one at work for our presentations and it's awesome....it has connections for everything except for a pizza maker, lol ;) Maybe that'll come one day, too, lol, j/k....I think that the board connections comin in the near future will fix all of these bottle-necking issues--ex. SerialATA and PCI-X I believe they r called....also, there is a new graphics connection comin out in 2002 if I remember the date correctly....it's supposed to have a speed about 20x faster than AGP and a bandwidth possibility of more than a 1000x greater than AGP....that'll be nice to see, I just hope that graphics board creators pick up on it quickly enough, cuz I don't feel like having a slot on my board that I don't use, lol....just like ISA....they r finally takin those off boards....took them long enough....PCI is next....they need to get rid of that and replace it with PCI-X since, if I'm not mistaken, it's compatible with regular PCI anyways, correct?? Oh well, just runnin off at the mouth....ttyl :D

martin 13th December, 2001 06:28 AM

alright....
 
1 Attachment(s)
I read in a video news mag about the 15 year anniversary of Pixar studios. They are the people that created Toy StoryI/II, Bug's Life and Monsters.Inc. and owned by Steve Jobs. The team leaders talked about doing something different, they included a video graphics designer during the designing and creating of the software that will be used in part to make the movie. This one guy interviewed, was saying how important it was to get from storyboards to images and scenes quickly to discuss any changes. I got the most amazing rush and a big smile crossed my face when the article mentioned he worked with a huge rendering farm of 3,500 processors... wow!

The future is- how can you move massive amounts of video data and display it on large, well lit, wall-mounted video screens. People want to see big and bold and beautiful. It's a must for all public access and commercial properties. So whoever can come up with the right scheme to have large bandwidth AND the processor power to deliver video data to it's maximum capacity, and then display it on say a 5' x 10' CRT or plasma thinscreens with the picture so lifelike....you could almost touch it!

I'm in heaven.....

Daniel ~ 13th December, 2001 08:27 AM

Say Martin, I'm please you found us and decided to join in, hope you find things to your liking!

loop 13th December, 2001 08:04 PM

I'm a performance over graphics guy, I like my games to never ever stutter under any circumstance, so if that means low resses then so be it.
My geforce2mx plays all the games I install and it doesnt stutter once I set the graphics down (my only complaint is the mouse lag I sometimes get).

Also thinking that at the moment its all very well being able to create millions of polygons, but who draws them??? someone has to take the time to draw and animate a face made of hundreds of polygons and animations (I know little about 3d animation so feel free to correct me). As far as I can see game development time will get longer and longer so that some of the graphics power can be used.

I think another big hold back is controls, games can only become so immersive with keyboard and mouse, its really annoying when in a game that has lots of controls you are having to search over your keyboard for the flame thrower. We need a way of making controls work with our brain. I know that is a long way off but it needs to happen otherwise games will get prettier but no more emmersive.

Some car design company that works for arrows (the F1 racing team) has a 170degree projector screen hooked up to a super computer, they downlaod satellite data of landscapes and use flight simulators on them, they also render cars in wind tunnels and in grassy parks.

My £500 there

martin 14th December, 2001 07:01 AM

Thanks..
 
Thank you Daniel for the welcome, I really like what you, Spode and the guys have done. It's great to see, I feel comfortable being here because there are so many familiar people in this forum.

Daniel ~ 14th December, 2001 07:08 AM

Re: Thanks..
 
Quote:

Originally posted by martin
Thank you Daniel for the welcome, I really like what you, Spode and the guys have done. It's great to see, I feel comfortable being here because there are so many familiar people in this forum.
Familiar faces? You think so? Now I wonder why that would be? LOL
Your right no friends like old friends! But new friends are the spice of life!!


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