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-   -   Linus promises profanity: 3.10 kernel (http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51188)

ThunderRd 12th June, 2013 03:48 PM

Linus promises profanity: 3.10 kernel
 
Fun thread here:

Linus Torvalds Promises Profanity Over Linux 3.10-rc5 - Slashdot

Daniel ~ 12th June, 2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

your deceased pet hamster.
Why must they always bring our dead pet hamsters into it!! Are we never to be allowed to forget!??

Linus...my favorite momma Grisly bear! ":O}

booman 14th June, 2013 12:32 AM

Hey, I'm glad someone else reads SlashDot!

Gizmo 14th June, 2013 04:54 AM

Linus reminds me a lot of....well, me, when I was younger. I LIKE him!

Daniel ~ 14th June, 2013 05:00 AM

It's really quite remarkable how he stands at the center of things and all of Linux weaves itself around his vision...

Let's pray we don't lose him...

chrisbard 14th June, 2013 12:19 PM

Well it appears that linux is going the same path windows did years ago... except no support! :rolling:

Daniel ~ 14th June, 2013 05:14 PM

In what way?

This may have gotten past you...But Linus asks for nothing from you. The most he has ever asked of me is that I enjoy his free software and not try and steal it.

So I have to ask...in what way are they alike?

chrisbard 14th June, 2013 05:16 PM

I think mister Torvalds explained this better than me. Read what he said, that's what I mean.

Daniel ~ 14th June, 2013 05:35 PM

Sorry I don't see him saying he's like Gates or that Linux is like Windows...":O}

I would hasten to add the Linux is incredibly well supported...just saying.

TrevorS 25th September, 2013 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisbard (Post 524831)
Well it appears that linux is going the same path windows did years ago... except no support! :rolling:

Sounds like they could have a coding efficiency problem. When most people debug, they tend to do a hack job resulting in extra pieces of code sticking out all over the place and resulting in slowing execution and swelling in size.

That's historically happened to probably all "professional" software efforts over time, Windows being just one example. If rc5 really did grow significantly over rc4 yet rc4 had more lines changed, then it sounds like decay is setting in (efficiency problems), and more thought is needed before making changes (or maybe their current compiler, libraries, and linker are junk, or perhaps all of the above?)

Gizmo 26th September, 2013 06:34 PM

I seem to recall there's actually a project underway to remove a lot of the cruft from Linux (or at least the kernel). Can't recall the name now though.

One of the issues, though, is backwards compatibility. Sometimes, removing something that appears to be redundant or useless can have unforeseen consequences.

TrevorS 26th September, 2013 08:07 PM

True, but I think the more typical problem is associated with installing corrections and new features without properly integrating them into the design. After a cycle or two of that kind of work, software tends to become unmanageable and unwieldy. The faster programmers try to work, the more likely decay will occur. It takes both time and thought to do this kind of work cleanly, but software management tends to object to anything that extends the time.

Gizmo 27th September, 2013 04:46 PM

Which is precisely the reason I used to get yelled at for doing it ANYWAY. LOL

TrevorS 28th September, 2013 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizmo (Post 525624)
Which is precisely the reason I used to get yelled at for doing it ANYWAY. LOL

I totally get it! Problem is most "programmers" are cookie cutter and simply follow a combination of their own non-committed inclination and restrictive management instruction. The resulting software is likely to die of decay within two or three cycles at which time it's necessary to provide something "new" (i.e. introduce a "next generation" which has yet to be hopelessly bastardized by marginal quality "maintenance" and "expansion").

It's not that the intentions are bad, it's just the process by which the intentions are "realized". If Linux can make a stand for integrity, that's really great, but the "User Manual" content doesn't suggest that. I hope the people actually developing the various versions of Linux are truly committed to some degree of programming excellence, not in the sense of religious halo's, but integrity of code -- that's what really matters! That's what I see as echoing in the Linux Torvill quote.

Linux Mint doesn't have to be released on a six or twelve month interval, it needs to be released when genuinely ready. It's OK to use the +0.1 update scheme when something unexpected is identified -- errors happen, no advantage to pretending otherwise. Overall code reviews are entirely appropriate and even if the coding contribution is voluntary, that doesn't mean responsibility doesn't exist. Someone has to take responsibility and if invective helps, then go for it.

Daniel ~ 28th September, 2013 06:27 AM

As both you and Gizmo code and I don't, about all I can say that might be helpful is that Mint's mission is to stay 6 months behind the curve to try and get things right...

TrevorS 28th September, 2013 09:27 AM

From the net, I may be over demanding regarding Mint, but it's highly important that Mint development do it's best to meet expectations and minimize early defects (like any other software development). Problems happen in real life, but it's important not to shorten the alpha and beta testing despite the attraction of an eager beaver release.

The customer is ultimately the user, not the project manager, and if as an honest programmer you can't stand by your code, then what you wrote is not ready for distribution (in which case why are you in this business)! It's important for a programmer to believe in the code they wrote, not that it's ultimately perfect, but that they are genuinely in pursuit of that goal and are honestly striving towards it! Perhaps it takes a 0.1 or 0.2 or even 0.3 to get to the desired point, but that's OK. What ultimately matters is the integrity of the software released to the public. What price being able to sleep at night :)?

Daniel ~ 28th September, 2013 05:04 PM

Trevor! It just sank in that your not interested in running 3D games and the like... if that's the case I'd differently recommend you try Mint Debian!

Faster and and better coded ( according to MINT!)

Here's an added incentive.... after months of waiting...Mint Debian is now downloading a 1498 file update!

I'm hoping this will remove my last and only problem with Mint Debian...

It's complete inability to run games... if it does I 'll immediately go to Debian full time!

If you want to try the big Mint D. go for the 64 bit as the 32 bit was pure ****. But that may change with this update...?

Debian is a rolling distribution...meaning you never have to dump everything and reinstall from scratch as one must do in Mint Ubuntu if you want to stay current.

I won't know the update out come for a couple of hours...long slow download and update. But this is the first and only update since I installed it....6 months or more ago! Debian is very slow to commit to new code...I thought that might appeal to you! ":O}

TrevorS 28th September, 2013 06:30 PM

Interesting -- something else to take a look at :)! I'm downloading the 64bit Cinnamon version (32bit doesn't support multiple cores). Still want to run across a decent manual to learn about these systems and hopefully the nature of their differences (as in Ubuntu Vs Debian).

Daniel ~ 28th September, 2013 09:02 PM

@#%$^*((%^$!!!

Still screws up claiming there's no DX9 installed...Still a great OS if your not gaming! LOL

I may try a complete new install when I'm feeling up to it.

TrevorS 29th September, 2013 02:01 AM

Sounds a royal pain :(! Hopefully the full install goes better.

I put the Pentium machine back together today with a DVD drive and the hard drive I pulled from my 4300FX core machine (the one I replaced with an SSD). Happily, the WinXP system already installed on the drive came right up and after removing a number of board specific programs (previously running an Asrock with AMD graphics card, now an Intel with integrated graphics) and installing the downloaded drivers, it's running perfectly.

I previously had a Win7 install on the second partition and planned to re-task it for Linux -- it's nice and clean and ready to go. However, after burning a 32bit Cinnamon DVD (Pentium4 being 32bit), I booted the Pentium off it and part way through the Live load Mint 15 crashes. I'll go back and verify the MD5, but I don't normally have any problems with FireFox managed downloads. Perhaps I'll try 14 and see what happens.

--------------------------------LATER---------------------------------

Well, well, I'm coming up with an MD5 error on the image file -- having to download again.

Seems the Live install may have been largely successful in that I can select the two leftmost menus and items within them. FireFox ran and verified sound and LAN drivers worked. Video appeared to work except for Youtube videos where the picture was a mess. There was no Software Manager access (the desktop was almost entirely blacked out), but I could nicely step through my LAN and access shared directories including play a video file on my server machine -- for that the video driver worked OK. So, presuming a retry with a good MD5 image file comes up properly, things are promising -- initial impressions are just fine.

TrevorS 29th September, 2013 07:49 AM

By the way, in working with XP today I observed it wanted 2MB minimum for it's disc swap file. I believe Win7 wanted 3-6MB, don't recall exactly. Don't know what the real requirement is, but as I mentioned, I could swear I've gone 0 MB more than once with XP (though intentionally temporarily)!

TrevorS 29th September, 2013 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS (Post 525648)
... after burning a 32bit Cinnamon DVD (Pentium4 being 32bit), I booted the Pentium off it and part way through the load Mint 15 crashes. I'll go back and verify the MD5, but I don't normally have any problems with FireFox managed downloads. Perhaps I'll try 14 and see what happens.

--------------------------------LATER--------------------------------

Well, well, I'm coming up with an MD5 error on the image file -- having to download again.

Seems the Live install may have been largely successful in that I can select the two leftmost menus and items within them. FireFox ran and verified sound and LAN drivers worked. Video appeared to work except for Youtube videos where the picture was a mess. There was no Software Manager access (the desktop was almost entirely blacked out), but I could nicely step through my LAN and access shared directories including play a video file on my server machine -- for that the video driver worked OK. So, presuming a retry with a good MD5 image file comes up properly, things are promising -- initial impressions are just fine.

Been going crazy with that MD5SUM issue, but it appears the image files are downloading fine, it's when I transfer them to my core/server machine that things go wrong. Finally carried them up via USB flash and that worked fine. Spent a few hours testing Mint image files transfers between the several computers and it's appearing I probably have a LAN switch issue that can crop up during transfers. Download doesn't appear to be a problem. In any case, I did end up with a known goodMD5 Mint/Cinnamon/15 DVD, but it failed in exactly the same way as the previous attempt.

I made a 14.1 DVD and that seemed to go OK (no error messages), but it's light on applications (no video player, no browser), and so I really don't know to what degree it's functional. I was hoping to find a software manager, but no. I'll have to try running 15 Live mode on another machine and see what happens.

TrevorS 4th October, 2013 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS (Post 525651)
Been going crazy with that MD5SUM issue, but it appears the image files are downloading fine, it's when I transfer them to my core/server machine that things go wrong. Finally carried them up via USB flash and that worked fine. Spent a few hours testing Mint image files transfers between the several computers and it's appearing I probably have a LAN switch issue that can crop up during transfers. Download doesn't appear to be a problem.

New Gigibit switch arrived today, swapped it in and no improvement, perhaps even a little worse MD5 performance. Only thing left to conclude is the longer run from the downstairs router to the upstairs switch has issues, but this is the first sign I've ever had of trouble. However, all my wiring is CAT 6 and the longest run is roughly fifty to sixty feet, whereas spec for twisted copper 1000Base-T is 100m. All I can imagine is a problem at one of the two wall connector jacks -- strange :(!


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