Gpu2 - 9600gso

[SteveI]

First off, there are many variants to the 9600 GSO, and they may perform significantly differently.

Long story short, I just pulled the trigger today. $65 after rebate. Here is what I got, and comparison to 9600GT:

EVGA w/
768MB 192bit 1.6ghz - more memory but slower
96 stream processors - 50% more
Core clock 550mhz - much slower

Forget video performance.... For my needs, it should be more than adequate (upgrade from x700).

Folding wise, if I tweak it, I hope I can match a 9600GT, since it actually has 96 versus 64 stream processors. Does 3500-4000 sound reasonable?

I just ordered this morning, so I won't see it until next week... grrr.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[ThunderRd]

Originally Posted by SteveI

Does 3500-4000 sound reasonable?

I'd say...yes. What are the stock core clock / shader clock / mem clock numbers, Steve?

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by ThunderRd

I'd say...yes. What are the stock core clock / shader clock / mem clock numbers, Steve?

550mhz / 1375mhz / 1600mhz

The ad did not specify shader clock.

For folding purposes, what is my best bet for drivers, and tools to overclock. From what I have read, I am only planning on oc'ing the shader as far as it will go. Can I do this without a bios hack? If not, sw oc on the core should bump the shader with it , right?

I expect to have a lot of headroom for oc'ing memory and core, but don't need it.... for now.

[ThunderRd]

Originally Posted by SteveI

From what I have read, I am only planning on oc'ing the shader as far as it will go. Can I do this without a bios hack? If not, sw oc on the core should bump the shader with it , right?

I use Rivatuner, and in it you can unlink the shader clock from the core. Upping the core creates quite a bit of heat which I don't want, but the shaders don't seem to create much. I also found that making any move at all with the memory clock immediately crashed fahcore on my machine, so I haven't touched that as a result.

Now that I am sure what I can run the card at, I hacked the BIOS, and I don't need Riva anymore except to control the fans.

[dabaerman]

TR, any opinion on the 9800GT vs the 9600Gt for folding? found a 9800 for less than the 9600. tempted to try an ATI card with 320 shaders!
thing is, now that this GPU folding is making a huge difference in ppd, I have become rather greedy for the points. and the team gets a boost too!

Ron

[ThunderRd]

Not an expert, but more shaders should equal more folding power. Check the folding forum thread I gave Steve above, it's all about comparisons between the cards available.

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by dabaerman

TR, any opinion on the 9800GT vs the 9600Gt for folding? found a 9800 for less than the 9600. tempted to try an ATI card with 320 shaders!
thing is, now that this GPU folding is making a huge difference in ppd, I have become rather greedy for the points. and the team gets a boost too!

Ron

IN general today, ATI does not have the folding potential. This may change with a new core, but as far as I know, I think the best ATI cards hit a ceiling around 2500-3000 ppd. While ATI has more shaders, they are dedicated, and cannot effectively fold like a similiar Nvidia card.

For reference, I have a 3870 card, and overclocked, it is giving me 2500 points. The newer, more expensive ATI cards are only marginally better. Also, from what I have read, ATI does not allow for pure shader OCs. It is linked to core, and cannot be separated.

I bought the card last summer, and folding was not a consideration. Now, I am shooting myself, because for the money (and similiar graphics performance), I could have gotten at least another 1k ppd.

Also, I think the 9800 is gonna be a bit better than 9600 for folding, but YMMV. There are so many variations in specs among mfgrs, it is tough to be sure. The reason the 9800 you saw could be so cheap may be that is cut down.

The 9600GSO I picked is dirt cheap, but I hope the extra shaders make up the difference.

[ThunderRd]

Originally Posted by SteveI

IN general today, ATI does not have the folding potential. This may change with a new core, but as far as I know, I think the best ATI cards hit a ceiling around 2500-3000 ppd. While ATI has more shaders, they are dedicated, and cannot effectively fold like a similiar Nvidia card.

Actually, the ATI cards are superior to the NVidia cards on the newer, larger proteins. That has been proven recently by the recent withdrawal of the new nvidia WUs that caused EUEs, Unstable_Machine errors, and serious heat problems for many.

Apparently, the blame lies partially with the drivers, and partially with the core. New versions of each have been promised that will attempt to deal with these problems. NVidia owners have been the recipient of a windfall in points prior to that. Expect that eventually, when the promised points system overhaul is done, the points of the two brands will be commensurate.

Has the card arrived yet, Steve?

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by ThunderRd

Actually, the ATI cards are superior to the NVidia cards on the newer, larger proteins. That has been proven recently by the recent withdrawal of the new nvidia WUs that caused EUEs, Unstable_Machine errors, and serious heat problems for many.

Apparently, the blame lies partially with the drivers, and partially with the core. New versions of each have been promised that will attempt to deal with these problems. NVidia owners have been the recipient of a windfall in points prior to that. Expect that eventually, when the promised points system overhaul is done, the points of the two brands will be commensurate.

Has the card arrived yet, Steve?

Thanks, good to know.
It's Sunday, so tomorrow night.....
In the meantime, I want to keep reading.... Probably go with the newest drivers. Any advice there?

Also, I think I will try stock for a few days, as a benchmark.

The disparity in cards has been pretty big. I am curious to see how points stack up, 9600 vs 3870... I think in overall performance, they should be close... I'll run 3dmarks, and we'll see for folding as well.

[ThunderRd]

Originally Posted by SteveI

In the meantime, I want to keep reading.... Probably go with the newest drivers. Any advice there?

Latest is 178.24.

I didn't see any ppd gain over the last one, but no loss either. Install it, run at stock for a couple of days and let me know here if you have any problems getting it going, and when you want to play with the shaders. Maybe download Rivatuner in the meantime? Also, if you are planning to keep another card working int here as well, let me know. There are some special steps in the install process[like extending the desktop].

Just now I'm looking at my FahMon...

GPU1: 4489.09ppd
GPU2: 4412.04ppd
SMP: 2503.99ppd

Not too shabby. If your card performs like mine do, you should get similar except for the SMP[I'm on Q6600]

[SteveI]

Thanks TR,
I'll go ahead and DL 178.24 and rivatuner now.
It's going into a single slot, running a coreduo@2.6ghz. It is first gen, and OC has been dissapointing. At the end of the day, it will run GPU and single core FAH. If I have any problems, you'll be the first to know.

[dabaerman]

Originally Posted by SteveI

Also, I think the 9800 is gonna be a bit better than 9600 for folding, but YMMV. There are so many variations in specs among mfgrs, it is tough to be sure. The reason the 9800 you saw could be so cheap may be that is cut down.
The 9600GSO I picked is dirt cheap, but I hope the extra shaders make up the difference.

actually, that 9800 was reported to be a re-badged 8800.not available at this time, so I missed out.
the extra shaders should help especially when oc'd.

Ron

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by ThunderRd

Not an expert, but more shaders should equal more folding power. Check the folding forum thread I gave Steve above, it's all about comparisons between the cards available.

HOLY SMOKE!!!
You're right TR. I just installed the new card... It is a monster, very heavy, 2 slot job, but quiet. It just finished 3%, and FahMon is saying 4189 PPD. I realize it is early, and the estimate is subject to change, but DAYUMMM!

I'll install rivatuner now to check the temps and fan... BTW, never used riva tuner before. WHat can I use check stability? just let it fold after tweaking? Should I stop the GPU when I mess with it?

Even if it don't oc for beans, I'm glad I got this card. Given the size of the HSF assembly, it can't run too hot.

[SteveI]

WHo am I fooling???
I loaded rivatuner.... fan was on auto and core temp was up to 76c, with ambient around 56c. I know ambient can't be right, but I don't like 76c, so I set the fan to manual @ 60%, and the temp dropped to 68c pretty quick... Since I was getting so comfortable with navigating rivatuner, I decided to try overclocking, left everything else alone and upped the shaders from 1350 (stock should have been 1375) to 1501 in one shot. I figure I will leave it this way. 1% seems to have dropped from 1:45 to about 1:35. 10 seconds off 100 is about 10%.

I really should let it settle in... It's gonna take all the patience I have to not up the shaders any more.... Maybe tomorrow night, if it is stable.

[SteveI]

This is on protein 5506 @480 pts if anyone cares. It is showing 4365 PPD, but I expect this to go up slightly.

EDIT: 4507 PPD.

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by dabaerman

actually, that 9800 was reported to be a re-badged 8800.not available at this time, so I missed out.
the extra shaders should help especially when oc'd.

Ron

I can't be sure, but in my reading, some say my 9600GSO is a rebadged 8800 as well, but I have a funky one with 768(?) megs of ram... 96 shade processors, and apparently overclock pretty well. 1375 stock, up to 1600 (showing 4700 PPD) and climbing.

[ThunderRd]

That's looking pretty good, Steve. Looks about the same as I can do with mine. Your temps are nothing to be afraid of, those cards should easily be able to sustain 90C if they have to, but of course it's better to keep them as cool as possible. Here's a guide for Rivatuner. You can create custom fan profiles so the fans kick up at the temps you prefer, rather than leaving it up to the driver default temp curve:
Vaguetech

Rivatuner is exceptional software, with hundreds and hundreds of deep settings. I have been using it for years, and it gets better and better, but a lot of it is still over my head. I may be able to help you if you have problems with it, though, so let me know after you've studied the guide.

You'll find that like the SMP WUs, different WUs will run at different speeds as well. 5506 is the most common at this time.

[SteveI]

I locked the fan at 60% and it is cooler 60-64c. Since the folding is under load, I will keep it simple for now. Once I am find the max oc, I will tinker with fan settings more.

I couldn't resist, and have the shaders up to 1700mhz... I'm amazed, on protein 5013 for 480pts, it is now reading 4,937PPD. If it is stable tonight (12hrs), I will go up further. This card is sick.

On another note, it seems that the extra ram is using about 20w. I think if I upgrade my last available rig gpu, I will shoot for another 9600GSO (384meg) if it is on sale. Close to 5,000 points on a $50 card is just sick.

By comparison, my ATI 3870 is avg'ing about 1,900-2,400 PPD, and that is with an overclocked core (15%).

[ThunderRd]

Hmmm. That extra video memory may be doing more for you than I thought it would...I haven't been able to get 5000ppd on my cards, with 512MB, and shaders at 1850-1900. I believe they are topped out at 4400-4600.

You may want to reconsider that plan to get a 384MB card. You may lose out.

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by ThunderRd

Hmmm. That extra video memory may be doing more for you than I thought it would...I haven't been able to get 5000ppd on my cards, with 512MB, and shaders at 1850-1900. I believe they are topped out at 4400-4600.

You may want to reconsider that plan to get a 384MB card. You may lose out.

I don't think it is the memory. Keep in mind, my card comes with 96 shaders. That's 50% more than the 9600GT (64).

This adds credibility that my 9600GSO is a rebadged 8800GTS core. Core speed is about the same, same number of shaders, and memory is stripped down, (192bit).

The 9600GSO (w/384) has also been reported to be a better folder than the 9600GT. Honestly, I think the extra memory just burns more electricity. However, for real GPU use, like gaming and benchmarks, I suspect that the GSO can't keep up with the GT.

I got mine on sale, about $70 after rebate. The 384meg version also goes on sale occassionally, for as low as $50.... I've always been a bang for the buck kind of guy. $50 for 5000PPD works for me.